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We, who manage to focus on ONE language | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : General discussion |  | |
| Chung Diglot Senior Member Joined 7154 days ago 4228 posts - 8259 votes  20 sounds Speaks: English*, French Studies: Polish, Slovak, Uzbek, Turkish, Korean, Finnish | Message 33 of 142 21 August 2013 at 6:01pm | IP Logged | ||||||||||||||
I, who manage to focus on MORE than one language, find the original post in its entirety a little more pointed than let on. As already noted, each of us has his/her reasons to learn a language. Just because someone's profile lists several languages under study, it shouldn't be construed that that person intends to study all of those languages with fluency in all areas as the goal. For some reading knowledge is all that matters, for others getting by for travelling is another, still for others there's review. In my case, I'm studying Hungarian, Polish and Slovak only in a broad sense because a better way to describe my effort is that I'm reviewing a lot of what I've first seen many years ago, not to mention that I've already interacted at length in these languages to the exclusion of English or French on many trips in Eastern Europe without a problem. On the other end, I'd say that I am definitely studying Northern Saami and Turkish because there are still lots of elements in them which are unknown and I'm not at all at a stage where I can even fathom taking in cultural output or using them comfortably in social situations. The former arises from positive experiences in Sápmi while the latter corresponds to an upcoming trip to Turkey. Finnish and Ukrainian are between these ends since I have already plowed through at least one DIY course for each of them and can take in some authentic output but it's not at the same intensity as I can do it with the first three languages that I had mentioned. BCMS/SC only became relevant again recently and even then there's never been an eye to gaining fluency but rather review since I needed to reestablish at least most of my knowledge for a trip this summer to Serbia after having first learned the language in the last decade for trips to Croatia. BCMS/SC will be out of my routine in a few weeks once I finish TY Serbian (a logical point to stop studying, in my opinion). In the end, my goal is the same as stated in 2011 and it means little to me whether I reach it next year, at age 64, or 104.
If tarvos were in my shoes, he'd very likely mark Polish and Slovak as languages known to basic fluency and so it wouldn't appear that my profile corresponds as much to that of the eternal student who seems subtly disparaged in the original post. On the other hand, I am quite strict in evaluating my abilities and am OK with a seemingly long list of languages under study. I simply don't judge that I speak anything other than English or French since professional competency counts too (e.g. performing a business transaction in the target language, attending an interview/meeting done only in that target language). In none of the languages under study could I comfortably and reliably use in a professional setting even if I'm down with using them socially or after-hours. Lastly there's the fact that as a native speaker of English whose professional and social needs are admittedly (and largely for the latter) fulfilled by that language, everything else concerning learning languages is gravy. I derive pleasure from learning new elements, refining my understanding and meeting new people through my devotion to a handful of foreign languages rather than racking up languages to fluency like pilots keen on becoming aces by marking up their aircraft or players keen on covering their bedposts with notches. Doesn't this aim to make the list of languages known to fluency as long as possible sound like quantity over quality too? 8 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||||||||
| tarvos Super Polyglot Winner TAC 2012 Senior Member China likeapolyglot.wordpr Joined 4705 days ago 5310 posts - 9399 votes Speaks: Dutch*, English, Swedish, French, Russian, German, Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Afrikaans Studies: Greek, Modern Hebrew, Spanish, Portuguese, Czech, Korean, Esperanto, Finnish | Message 34 of 142 21 August 2013 at 6:11pm | IP Logged | ||||||||||||||
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I don't consider basic fluency acceptable for professional level, only advanced. That's
just the way I roll. And by saying I speak them, it will incite people to start conversations in that language, meaning more practice opportunities to get better. I wouldn't necessarily tell my employer the same thing - I'd just mention those that are relevant for the job. 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||||||||
| Bao Diglot Senior Member Germany tinyurl.com/pe4kqe5 Joined 5764 days ago 2256 posts - 4046 votes Speaks: German*, English Studies: French, Spanish, Japanese, Mandarin | Message 35 of 142 21 August 2013 at 6:31pm | IP Logged | ||||||||||||||
Suddenly, life turns out differently than one intended it to, and the possibilities are to give up on an intermediate language, or to accept that it'll take quite some time to sort out the mess one just found oneself in. That's three of my 'study' languages. Edited by Bao on 21 August 2013 at 8:26pm 4 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||||||||
| JC_Identity Triglot Groupie Sweden thelawofidentity.comRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 4119 days ago 53 posts - 108 votes Speaks: Swedish, Serbo-Croatian*, English | Message 36 of 142 21 August 2013 at 7:28pm | IP Logged | ||||||||||||||
I think I have a problem understanding what you mean with one-language managers. When I read it, I get the impression that you are referring to and including all people in general that have no language learning goal nor are part of the language learning community (since you write: "in case they can't avoid learning English") i.e. people that do not care about learning any other language than their native one. If that is the case and you call those people one-language manager, I agree with you fully. However the context I have always been assuming here is people that have a serious want to learn new languages and go about trying to do so. I am sorry if this wasn't clear. Within this context however, I have had the impression that it is in reverse. Those that want to learn languages by going about and learning a lot of new languages at the same time tend to fail more often. Of course there are exceptions but this is my impression. And I have never been opposed to wanting to learn a lot of languages, in fact I have some more languages in addition to French that I would like to speak, but they will have to wait because I prioritize French. Now to clarify more, if we assume that someone wants to learn five new languages to whatever levels, my point has here been that I am convinced that they will reach these specific levels much faster if they go about attacking the languages sequentially, one after the other. Only starting a new one when they have satisfactory reached their predefined goals for the one they solely focused on. I think also that it helps self-esteem along if you can reach your goals more frequently and check them off. In fact I think this is a big point. If you go a long time without being able to say to yourself that you have accomplished something that you set out to accomplish, you can begin to question yourself. But of course some may not have defined goals and are just explorers, while others might be comfortable with slow growth so they can spend more time on more languages. I respect this fully, but for me I am constantly concerned with efficiency combined with passion for language learning. I must say that I really appreciate all entries here so far. It is a healthy discussion in my opinion as I think happens when people can be honest in expressing their views without imposing them. This leaves everyone room to judge for themselves what makes sense to them and who they can relate to. 4 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||||||||
| Cavesa Triglot Senior Member Czech Republic Joined 5007 days ago 3277 posts - 6779 votes Speaks: Czech*, FrenchC2, EnglishC1 Studies: Spanish, German, Italian | Message 37 of 142 21 August 2013 at 8:04pm | IP Logged | ||||||||||||||
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I am one of those who have several languages spread from beginner to nearly speaking stage. First of all, I know I would have faster results if I tackled them one after another. But I don't care. Even the partial results are useful to me (such as survival level language during a holiday, or high comprehension skill before the active ones). And languages and 90% of the stuff tied to them are part of fun for me. Iam stressed enough about my university studies, just as many other are stressed enough about work or other duties. Seeing results and fast achieving them as the main focus, that can be detrimentary to anything you do in the free time in my opinion.
You forget that to give ourselves the feeling of achievement, we often need to choose short term goals. Most people defining the goal as "being fluent" and tying the achievement to it often fail at learning even if they do just one language at a time because it still takes longer than most brains can wait for the "reward". When you choose smaller goals, than it doesn't matter whether they are all for one language or for several. Again, I see a huge America vs Europe difference here (my apologies in advance for a bit of generalization and simplification). As the American society is very result and achievement oriented (which comes with awesome advantages but some less pleasant consequences as well), I am not surprised to see the Americans like you or Khatzumoto advocating the most efficient and fast way while mentioning self esteem as closely related to it all. And on the other side of the discussion, I can see mostly Europeans. It's just about other values. 3 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||||||||
| ScottScheule Diglot Senior Member United States scheule.blogspot.com Joined 5226 days ago 645 posts - 1176 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish Studies: Latin, Hungarian, Biblical Hebrew, Old English, Russian, Swedish, German, Italian, French | Message 38 of 142 21 August 2013 at 9:14pm | IP Logged | ||||||||||||||
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While I do imagine learning one language at a time is more efficient in reaching fluency, I'm not swayed. I just love languages, and I find nibbling a bit at one and then at another to be more delightful than swallowing a single tongue whole. Everything I learn is promptly entered into Anki, so it's not as if I forget previous learnings from one language as I flit to another.
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| Expugnator Hexaglot Senior Member Brazil Joined 5164 days ago 3335 posts - 4349 votes Speaks: Portuguese*, Norwegian, French, English, Italian, Papiamento Studies: Mandarin, Georgian, Russian | Message 39 of 142 21 August 2013 at 9:49pm | IP Logged | ||||||||||||||
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I belong to the group that studies a lot of them at the same time, and it used to be
much worse before I could detain wanderlust a bit. Still, I completeley agree with kuji and tarvos. When I'm done with the scheduled activities for a language, I just can't take it any longer. That's the reason I decide to stick to something else to distract - and this means studying another language for me. Basic fluency is a goal for all of my languages. I just push harder the ones I need sooner. Even so, sometimes I may have realized that enough is enough. Being Papiamentu an easy language for me, I don't think I should spend more time on it than I do, even if I'm visiting the countries in a few weeks. OTOH, I know that it will take time for me to read anything in Georgian, and I learned to be patient. I'm learning new words each day. In the beginning, I could easily get overwhelmed by Georgian texts, and now I can take 2 or 3 each day. When I start to think I'm getting no results, I just keep on moving. I know they will show up when I'm not expecting. That was how it happened with French. For a few languages, advanced fluency is more than desired. But then when I've reached basic fluency, methods and priorities change. I don't study French anymore like I did 1 year ago. I just read from a book and watch a film. Yet I still make progress, yet it feels less and less like studying for me, even though I keep strict about my schedule and the need to keep the language alive. It's not up to anyone to judge anyone else, like Chung already said. Different languages, different goals. Like Iversen, I believe basic reading fluency is always a worthy goal, and I'm glad I could reach it for languages like Italian without the need to actively studying it from textbooks. I'm also looking forward to reaching this basic reading fluency in other Slavic languages once I've learned my first one (Russian) up to a B1 level. I have plenty of time for languages, I'm reaching my goals at the most important ones while tackling others, always assuring that my self-study goes faster than 2 hours a week in a classroom (yeah, I keep doing this trade-off thing because I plan on enrolling on a Mandarin class next year). It is always delightful to come back to a textbook you've fought with one year ago and realize things became ridiculously easy. 4 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||||||||
| lichtrausch Triglot Senior Member United States Joined 5958 days ago 525 posts - 1072 votes Speaks: English*, German, Japanese Studies: Korean, Mandarin | Message 40 of 142 21 August 2013 at 10:57pm | IP Logged | ||||||||||||||
I'm of the same opinion as Khatzumoto except I aim for near-native instead of native. 1 person has voted this message useful |
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