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Article: Students fall short on Vocabulary | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : General discussion |  | |
| s_allard Triglot Senior Member Canada Joined 5427 days ago 2704 posts - 5425 votes  Speaks: French*, English, Spanish Studies: Polish | Message 297 of 319 05 May 2014 at 1:46am | IP Logged |
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After all this debate about vocabulary and preparation for the CFER C level exams of oral proficiency, it is
instructive to see some samples of what examiners consider appropriate. Here is a site when you can see videos of students de various levels: Examples of CFER levels of oral proficiency The site might be a bit confusing to use in the beginning. You choose the CFER level that you want then the language of the test. In the next page, you will see a list of students ranked from A at the top down to C. This part is not clear. Then you can read comments by examiners about the individual performances. I highly recommend at the C2 level students. They are very good. But more importantly, the vocabulary is nothing very specialized, but the delivery is excellent. Edited by s_allard on 05 May 2014 at 2:00am 1 person has voted this message useful | |
 Iversen Super Polyglot Moderator Denmark berejst.dk Joined 6700 days ago 9078 posts - 16473 votes Speaks: Danish*, French, English, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, Swedish, Esperanto, Romanian, Catalan Studies: Afrikaans, Greek, Norwegian, Russian, Serbian, Icelandic, Latin, Irish, Lowland Scots, Indonesian, Polish, Croatian Personal Language Map | Message 298 of 319 10 May 2014 at 2:22am | IP Logged |
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I have now made my calculations concerning the English vocabulary in my Multiconfused log thread, and the result is not quite what I expected. My guess was that a sample of some 15.000 words would be so representative of my language in general that it wouldn't mean much to extend the sample. But based on my results with a much larger sample it seems that the number of words used roughly is proportional with the sample size. You can see the details in my log.
Of course there must be an upper limit, and it must lie lower han my passive vocabulary - although I could have used words which I saw in a dictionary or on the internet, used and promptly forgot again. But I don't have corpora of a size that could prove it - especially not in my weaker languages, where you could expect that I move within a smaller vocabulary and repeat myself to a larger extent than in English. But maybe it wouldn't help because in those languages I also use my dictionaries more frequently than I do when I write in English. Edited by Iversen on 10 May 2014 at 2:28am 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| FuroraCeltica Triglot Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 6862 days ago 1187 posts - 1427 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish, French | Message 299 of 319 10 May 2014 at 8:57pm | IP Logged |
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Thats what language learning is all about - voabulary. You recognise the words, you will
go far 3 persons have voted this message useful | |
| shk00design Triglot Senior Member Canada Joined 4441 days ago 747 posts - 1123 votes Speaks: Cantonese*, English, Mandarin Studies: French | Message 300 of 319 11 May 2014 at 3:48am | IP Logged |
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One of the best approaches to learning is an immersion course where the whole class is forced to speak to the
teacher in the language you're learning. 2 case scenarios: in Canada you have English & French as official languages. If you reside in the English-speaking part of the country, you'd take French until your high school years as requirement. I've seen the people who are in the immersion program do much better than the one who are in a regular French program that focuses on grammar & vocabulary than speaking. Sometime ago I've gone to Taiwan for a summer exchange program. The people were divided into 3 groups (A, B & C) for their Mandarin classes. The people who were assigned to the basic level only knew a few words & phrases but not enough to carry on a conversation. The ones who were enrolled in the advanced level could speak at a high level already and they also had the most to gain. It is like taking an auto-mechanic course to fix cars. If you already have some experience how to change the oil, filter, etc., you'd learn faster than those who hasn't touch a car besides cleaning the windows. 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| betelgeuzah Diglot Groupie Finland Joined 4398 days ago 51 posts - 82 votes Speaks: Finnish*, English Studies: Japanese, Italian | Message 301 of 319 11 May 2014 at 12:32pm | IP Logged |
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IIRC Finns are like that. Sure, you can say that we speak good English (generally) considering our first language is nothing like it. But more often than not it comes down to us having a good grasp of a small amount of vocabulary and grammar.
I think that is enough for many things. Vocabulary only becomes a significant limitation once you step out of the spoken language and everyday written language. To be honest, if you never encounter the vocab you won't need it either (over a certain threshold, which is quite low). And if you do encounter such words, you can kind of passively absorb most of it anyway. That's how I've been able to expand my vocab knowledge over the years. 2 persons have voted this message useful | |
| Serpent Octoglot Senior Member Russian Federation serpent-849.livejour Joined 6594 days ago 9753 posts - 15779 votes 4 sounds Speaks: Russian*, English, FinnishC1, Latin, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese Studies: Danish, Romanian, Polish, Belarusian, Ukrainian, Croatian, Slovenian, Catalan, Czech, Galician, Dutch, Swedish | Message 302 of 319 11 May 2014 at 5:36pm | IP Logged |
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FYI, IIRC stands for "if I recall correctly" :-)
Do you know anyone who actually passed an YKI test though? I agree that for a casual impression of a good level, a small vocabulary might be okay, but there's no way you can pass a B2 or higher test like that. At least if it's anything like the Finnish for foreigners one I passed. 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| betelgeuzah Diglot Groupie Finland Joined 4398 days ago 51 posts - 82 votes Speaks: Finnish*, English Studies: Japanese, Italian | Message 303 of 319 11 May 2014 at 8:17pm | IP Logged |
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Yeah, I read about it somewhere actually, thus the IIRC :D I should have made it clearer in my post.
I'm sure it won't be enough for B2 or higher, and usually Finns do study for tests like that with vocab lists and such. But I'm not sure if the vocab actually sticks in the long run. If you don't encounter the vocab and don't need to use it you'll probably end up forgetting it. 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| Serpent Octoglot Senior Member Russian Federation serpent-849.livejour Joined 6594 days ago 9753 posts - 15779 votes 4 sounds Speaks: Russian*, English, FinnishC1, Latin, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese Studies: Danish, Romanian, Polish, Belarusian, Ukrainian, Croatian, Slovenian, Catalan, Czech, Galician, Dutch, Swedish | Message 304 of 319 11 May 2014 at 9:14pm | IP Logged |
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True. But it seems like many Finns just know better what to do with a solid B1+ level. And most seem to know the vocabulary needed for their job.
Makes me think of this simple, beautiful song. In your opinion, why is it so different with Swedish btw? Just because it's far less useful than English? When people learn a language voluntarily (let's say Spanish or German), are they able to use a relatively low level efficiently? Edited by Serpent on 11 May 2014 at 10:06pm 1 person has voted this message useful |
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