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We, who manage to focus on ONE language | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : General discussion |  | |
| casamata Senior Member Joined 4260 days ago 237 posts - 377 votes  Studies: Portuguese | Message 49 of 142 22 August 2013 at 5:22pm | IP Logged | |||||
No, I don't think you know. Somebody that is spread thin with...say 10 languages will potentially not even have been exposed to a lot of the intricacies of a language that the specialist will have been familiar with. This definitely is applicable and valid if the specialist spent X hours with one language whereas the other person divided that time into 10 distinct languages. And yes, some people are just so dedicated to one topic that they devote their lives to it, whether it is studying a tumor marker, history, a physics theory, or a language. I derive a lot more pleasure devoting myself to a few things in my life than many. Knowing not just the word for lawnmower but the parts of the lawnmower and even the different terms for this topic in several countries is interesting to me. The more a person knows about a topic, the more humble they are, in my experience. I personally know very educated and dedicated general surgeons with 4 years of college, 4 years of medical school, and 5+ years of residency working 80+ hours a week (literally, not an exaggeration) that are very deferential and humble when consulting with other, even more specialized surgeons. (like vascular or neurosurgical docs)They know enough to know that they really don't know that much compared to others! Also, the definition of having a really sharp knife is pretty subjective. It really depends on what level you are comparing yourself to, whether it is tourist-level knowledge, HS level knowledge, college degree knowledge, or PhD level knowledge of a language. For me, having anything less than a doctoral level knowledge of a language is not enough to satisfy myself. For others, it may be a tourist level or a HS level. But let's not kid ourselves by thinking that we can reach the same level in 10 languages as somebody that devotes their life to just one. They can get really good at 10 languages and get most of the benefit with a fraction of the time invested in each language, but they won't ever reach the specialist. Again, nothing wrong with choosing either. But I just had the impression that you were criticizing specialists in an earlier post of yours. Edited by casamata on 22 August 2013 at 5:33pm 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Cavesa Triglot Senior Member Czech Republic Joined 5007 days ago 3277 posts - 6779 votes Speaks: Czech*, FrenchC2, EnglishC1 Studies: Spanish, German, Italian | Message 50 of 142 22 August 2013 at 6:14pm | IP Logged | |||||
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I think there is one point constantly being overlooked. Vast majority of us here is devoting our lives neither to one language nor to ten. Vast majority of us does have another job or studies (where we are the specialists) and languages are something we do aside. Either as a hobby or as a smaller part of our job or studies.
Therefore I would wholeheartedly agree with Casamata about the one language and all the intricacies if we agreed to discuss just the professionals (translators, interpreters, perhaps teachers). But other than that surely not. And by PhD knowledge, you mean PhD in linguistics/translation/philogy or the general level of English required from PhDs? The first are as well required to knows tons of associated humanities rubbish for their work, why would I bother myself with all that? The level of the others is in general horrible. About your example of the humble people: as a medicine student and as well someone with a huge family full of patients, I meet a lot of specialized, dedicated, clever and educated doctors. And I'd say about half is humble and the other arrogant. And you cannot judge their character based on how they treat those on their level or above it (in your example other surgeons or the elites), of course they are nice and humble towards them, it would be naive and stupid to expect anything else. Always look how they treat their patients, including those with little money and power like lonely senile old people, the "lower" medicine staff and the students. Then you can judge whether or not they are humble. Btw how did you get there in the first place? Does Iversen sound too proud to you? I don't understand. Edited by Cavesa on 22 August 2013 at 6:16pm 4 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| casamata Senior Member Joined 4260 days ago 237 posts - 377 votes Studies: Portuguese | Message 51 of 142 22 August 2013 at 6:55pm | IP Logged | |||||
When I talked about the PhD level knowledge, I was not talking about knowing the intricacies of grammar at that level but having a very high level. (A PhD in chemistry is going to be know more than the vast majority of MS chemistry graduates or BS chemistry graduates) I don't agree with what you say about the attending surgeons treating lower-level residents, students, and patients. They should be nice to everybody and treat them with respect, yes. But in terms of knowledge, they will know more than people lower on the proverbial totem pole. But that deals more with being objective and knowing that you are more well-versed in the topic than others. On the *topic*, not in general. I'm not talking about arrogance and humility in general but knowledge in just one topic. (medicine in this case) For instance, I know a lot more than a first year medical student but a lot less than a 2nd year resident. I got there partly as a knee-jerk reaction about all the topics that posters seem to write about seemed to me to be saying that more languages is better and that learning one language or two is less respectable or noteworthy. And they seem, in my view, to imply or even directly state that they can get to your same knowledge in many languages in limited time spent with the language. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| tarvos Super Polyglot Winner TAC 2012 Senior Member China likeapolyglot.wordpr Joined 4705 days ago 5310 posts - 9399 votes Speaks: Dutch*, English, Swedish, French, Russian, German, Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Afrikaans Studies: Greek, Modern Hebrew, Spanish, Portuguese, Czech, Korean, Esperanto, Finnish | Message 52 of 142 22 August 2013 at 7:43pm | IP Logged | |||||
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Pareto principle. Iversen may not know all the intricacies, but he can get a lot for free
even with relatively little effort. And that's worth having. Edited by tarvos on 22 August 2013 at 7:44pm 4 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| Henkkles Triglot Senior Member Finland Joined 4251 days ago 544 posts - 1141 votes Speaks: Finnish*, English, Swedish Studies: Russian | Message 53 of 142 22 August 2013 at 7:44pm | IP Logged | |||||
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On a tangent the mere thought of devoting my entire life to the study of one single language is creeping me out.
6 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| casamata Senior Member Joined 4260 days ago 237 posts - 377 votes Studies: Portuguese | Message 54 of 142 22 August 2013 at 7:52pm | IP Logged | |||||
Yes, but the idea that you learn 80% of the words with 20% of the effort actually isn't that helpful. Your level of understanding with 80% word knowledge is pretty poor. "The woman suffered thrombophlebitis after taking a dip into the sauna." Here we have 11 words and if you don't know two of them (thrombophlebitis and sauna), you're not gonna understand anything at all. Here is a bbc article that I randomly clicked on. "Sirens sounded across the area, but no casualties were reported. Footage showed some minor damage." 15 words. If you don't know 3 words (sirens, casualties, footage), you're not going to understand much. The other words are ones that most intermediate learners would know but without the advanced terms you're not gettin' far. Also, that 20% of knowledge is really important. Good luck trying to make a living as an engineer, an athlete, or anything if people are 25% better (and 20% better in absolute terms) than your 80%. For example, If I were 25% faster at running, I would easily break the world record in distance events (like the 5K). But since I am not 25% better, it is just a competitive hobby. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| casamata Senior Member Joined 4260 days ago 237 posts - 377 votes Studies: Portuguese | Message 55 of 142 22 August 2013 at 7:54pm | IP Logged | |||||
Hopefully you are also devoting it to your significant other, kids, friends, other hobbies, and your job. :) 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| mike245 Triglot Senior Member Hong Kong Joined 6970 days ago 303 posts - 408 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish, Cantonese Studies: French, German, Mandarin, Khmer | Message 56 of 142 22 August 2013 at 7:58pm | IP Logged | |||||
I'm a highly educated native speaker of English, and I have no idea what "thrombophlebitis" means. That said, I assume it's some sort of medical condition. By the way, how do you take a dip in a sauna? Do you mean a hot tub? 8 persons have voted this message useful |
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