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Are we being too hard on the polyglots? | ||
Tags: Polyglot bashing | Polyglot | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Polyglots |  | |
| Solfrid Cristin Heptaglot Winner TAC 2011 & 2012 Senior Member Norway Joined 5333 days ago 4143 posts - 8864 votes  Speaks: Norwegian*, Spanish, Swedish, French, English, German, Italian Studies: Russian | Message 1 of 72 07 December 2010 at 10:28pm | IP Logged | |||||
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After looking at a couple of threads concerning polyglots I ask myself the question whether we are too demanding when it comes to polyglots. A while back, I wathched the videos released by Fasulye, and I remember thinking: This looks fun! This looks like something I might like to do as well. However after having seen the extremely negative response, bordering on hatred that others have received, I am not so sure anymore.
I did not see any negative feed back to Fasulye, and I expect that is because she is very matter of fact when it comes to how many languages she speaks. She does not pretend to know more than the ones she actually know, and she has a good level in the languages she speak. The ones where she is still in a learning process, are clearly presented as such. I think that is very wise, because then one does not let oneself open to attacks. Those who are more at an intermediate level, and who are less specific as to the fact that they are still only at an intermediate level, run the risk of attracting negative reactions. To a certain extent, that is normal, but it is the intensity that worries me. We cannot all be Torbyrne or Luca (who impress me a lot!!!). Perhaps we should be more tolerant to others who are also still in a learning process but who are perhaps too young or inexperienced to be specific on that. Do we scare away people who might make valuable contributions because our demands are too high? Should we be more forgiving of people who are young and enthusiastic about languages, even if their level is not the best, and just be happy that they are young people who love languages in stead of football? For the record, I am not suggesting that we shower praise on the undeserving. What I am suggesting is that we should perhaps be a bit kinder to those who try. After all, they do no harm, and imperfect as they may be, they may still serve as inspiration to others. Edited by Solfrid Cristin on 07 December 2010 at 11:43pm 23 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| hrhenry Octoglot Senior Member United States languagehopper.blogs Joined 5129 days ago 1871 posts - 3642 votes Speaks: English*, SpanishC2, ItalianC2, Norwegian, Catalan, Galician, Turkish, Portuguese Studies: Polish, Indonesian, Ojibwe | Message 2 of 72 07 December 2010 at 11:06pm | IP Logged | |||||
I think this is very much what it comes down to, in other words presentation. If you present yourself as someone who is learning and wants positive feedback, that seems to generally be what you'll get. There's another post in here somewhere by a person wanting feedback on her accent and she's received nothing but (well deserved) positive replies, at least in my opinion. I think the negative remarks come when we see people come around with "I speak xxx number of languages. What do you all think?" There's no asking for feedback, just stating that they speak however many languages. And I suppose when you're not actually asking for feedback or tips on improvement, you're bound to get negative criticism. R. == Edited by hrhenry on 07 December 2010 at 11:07pm 3 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| Journeyer Triglot Senior Member United States tristan85.blogspot.c Joined 6867 days ago 946 posts - 1110 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish, German Studies: Sign Language | Message 3 of 72 07 December 2010 at 11:31pm | IP Logged | |||||
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It should be said again that certainly some remarks are taken the wrong way because of the written format, not to mention the differing cultural sensibilities and senses of humor that come together at this meeting point on the Interwebs. I'm not speaking to that in the following.
I completely agree. I also have thought about putting up a video of me speaking several languages, to show people that it can be done, to ask for help from native speakers, and to have a goal to shoot towards. This was years ago, as far as I know before any other videos had been made. I didn't speak enough at the time and still don't for my goal of said video, but the responses I've found on youtube and here as well have made me decide I probably don't want to. I haven't even listed the languages I have been studying for similar reasons, until another forum member talked me into it. Maybe I'm being a little jealous of my privacy, but seeing people shot down is very discouraging. It's ugly to see it on youtube, and here it's not as bad, but there have been selfish remarks made, I feel. I guess I'm thinking of threads like the infamous one about Ziad Fazah. He was regarded as a bit like a hero until that thread got into full swing. I'm not saying the skeptics were wrong to be skeptical. But egos flared up, mudslinging started, none of which was constructive. Calling out a person's integrity is fine if the situation calls for it, but there are tactful ways of doing it. That's simply an example of one of the storms over the polyglot section. Most of us have probably had similar excited notions of speaking several languages fluently and build it up in our heads. I've done it (not here, but in general life) and many of us too probably have. Why be harshly critical of that? Be constructive. Sometimes folks won't listen, but if they don't it isn't a problem of ours and being extra harsh will only make them in turn harden their shell or burn them out altogether. Many people speak two or three languages. But usually with polyglots, especially geeks like us (I use that in the friendly way, of course! :-D) are a small group of people we are already peculiar. No one has anything to gain by putting others done in a hurtful way. Edited by Journeyer on 07 December 2010 at 11:35pm 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Journeyer Triglot Senior Member United States tristan85.blogspot.c Joined 6867 days ago 946 posts - 1110 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish, German Studies: Sign Language | Message 4 of 72 07 December 2010 at 11:34pm | IP Logged | |||||
But it's the nature of the criticism. I think the issue is more in how it's stated. It can be fun to see someone who can do a lot, but I don't think people showing off are much more fun to be around than those putting them down. They are both volatile egos at battle. 3 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| hrhenry Octoglot Senior Member United States languagehopper.blogs Joined 5129 days ago 1871 posts - 3642 votes Speaks: English*, SpanishC2, ItalianC2, Norwegian, Catalan, Galician, Turkish, Portuguese Studies: Polish, Indonesian, Ojibwe | Message 5 of 72 07 December 2010 at 11:54pm | IP Logged | |||||
Well, criticism can come in many forms. It doesn't have to be negative. In fact, negative criticism rarely helps anyone. Perhaps I should have said that the criticism is bound to be anything but constructive. R. == 3 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| noriyuki_nomura Bilingual Octoglot Senior Member Switzerland Joined 5339 days ago 304 posts - 465 votes Speaks: English*, Mandarin*, Japanese, FrenchC2, GermanC2, ItalianC1, SpanishB2, DutchB1 Studies: TurkishA1, Korean | Message 6 of 72 07 December 2010 at 11:54pm | IP Logged | |||||
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Like Cristin, I also began wondering whether we have become too demanding/harsh towards other language learners who aspire to become polyglots themselves. And as hrhenry has also rightly pointed out that there are indeed some people who might come across as 'over-selling' their skills on youtube for example, which might rub off the wrong way on other people.
Personally, I feel that, we should give one another encouragement to further improve the languages that we are currently learning/want to learn, as this forum/website is still afterall a 'meeting point' where language lovers from all over the world, be it in Europe, in Asia, in America, or any other parts of the world, can gather and talk, naturally, about languages. I am sure that in our 'real life', we don't really have that much of an opportunity to meet up with like-minded people who are passionate with languages. At least for me, I have been told at times in 'real life', why am I learning a useless language like XXX, or why not learn YYY? Hence, I am glad to discover this wonderful website where I can meet wonderful people like you all, who share the same interest as I do. To me, I am just passionate to learn languages, and hopefully through them, I can explore and appreciate the rich cultures that each can offer to me. Hence, it is ultimately my goal to master the languages that I am learning as good as possible, though I must admit that there are limits :( However, we mustn't also forget that, everyone has different motive/aspiration/objective in learning a foreign language/multiple languages, and that includes also the depth of the language(s) that one wants to achieve....if those whose aim is merely to speak the basics of 20 - 30 languages and is contented with it, then good for them. That's why I think that, instead of getting upset with them, we should/could spend the time in improving the languages that we are learning :) Afterall, I think I would be happier to see someone spending his time to learn the basics of 20 - 30 languages, rather than seeing him/her spending his/her time just playing computer games, taking drugs, etc. Edited by noriyuki_nomura on 08 December 2010 at 12:03am 5 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| Torbyrne Super Polyglot Senior Member Macedonia SpeakingFluently.com Joined 6094 days ago 126 posts - 721 votes Speaks: French, English*, German, Spanish, Dutch, Macedonian, Portuguese, Italian, Swedish, Czech, Catalan, Welsh, Serbo-Croatian Studies: Sign Language, Toki Pona, Albanian, Polish, Bulgarian, TurkishA1, Esperanto, Romanian, Danish, Mandarin, Icelandic, Modern Hebrew, Greek, Latvian, Estonian | Message 7 of 72 08 December 2010 at 12:23am | IP Logged | |||||
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Solfrid Cristin – first of all, you flatter me with your words. It is nice to read positive comments about what I do and I am grateful to hear such kind things from you. Thank you! :)
Regarding being too hard on polyglots… I feel that criticism is an important part of our society and that it is the start of many exchanges. It is certainly not a problem to be resolved. Feedback is important and it forms the basis of much dialogue between people. Honest and constructive dialogue can be useful. Of course, a witch hunt is an extreme form of this and not helpful (though I think this almost goes without saying). I make videos and people are free to make any comment they like about my languages, the information I offer and the quality of my videos. I am happy to receive positive and negative criticism on my work. I don't have to take it all on board, but putting myself out there does give me an obligation to listen/read what others think (unless I were to ignore all comments and forums of course ;)). Some positive comments are quite generic, others are extremely (even “too”) kind and it is important to balance them out with some negative ones, so one’s head doesn’t swell! I smile to myself when I see, “your X sucks” because it would be weird to just hear good things – or maybe that’s the British in me! ;) Some people state clearly and eloquently why they dislike (or why people could dislike) the way certain language learners portray themselves. Other leave spiteful, unsubstantiated comments – such people are usually called “haters”. One is useful, the other not, but we get both and this is all just part of life. Now, where the distinction needs to lie here is, who is a hater and who is just saying, "I don't like it because...". The dialogue should be with and about the latter, not the former as the former are incoherent and probably incapable of discussing the matter in any depth. Sadly I do sometimes feel that people with genuine negative feedback can be vilified and lumped together with the “haters”. These scenarios can get frustrating as we don’t live in a cartoon where things are good or evil. Language levels in videos vary from displays of a basic level to intricate use and precise command of a language at a high level. Of course, no one is forced to watch any videos on YouTube, but having them out there is inviting comments/discussion/debate/thought etc. What is one person’s wine is another person’s poison, and we see the varying tastes quite well on this forum. I’ve said this before, anyone putting out YouTube videos needs to have a pretty thick skin and feel happy in what they know they know. Otherwise I imagine it could be quite a harrowing experience receiving the wide-ranging comments people leave for you on forums and YouTube! 9 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| Gorgoll2 Senior Member Brazil veritassword.blogspo Joined 5145 days ago 159 posts - 192 votes Speaks: Portuguese* | Message 8 of 72 08 December 2010 at 12:56am | IP Logged | |||||
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In this forum, "hater" became a very common word. Everybody here hate anybody: Torbyrne,
Luca, Ziad Fazah, Moses Mc Cormick and Cesare M - He get out of this forum. Somebody for envy, others for ceticism - We can´t negate the existence of lier. I believe these people as a "cyberbulling". But indeed, it´s a side of the democracy - the dark size of the force. 4 persons have voted this message useful |
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