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Making our own Assimil | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : General discussion |  | |
| Julie Heptaglot Senior Member PolandRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 6715 days ago 1251 posts - 1733 votes  5 sounds Speaks: Polish*, EnglishB2, GermanC2, SpanishB2, Dutch, Swedish, French | Message 25 of 130 28 May 2008 at 2:34pm | IP Logged | ||
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Lesson 1
1. Nick, we have to go to the store. 2. Where? 3. The store. Let’s go now. 4. I have a problem. 5. What? 6. I can’t find my shoes. 7. They are right here. 8. Thanks, mom. 9. No problem. 1. Nick, musimy iść do sklepu. 2. Dokąd? 3. Do sklepu. Chodźmy już. 4. Mam problem. 5. Co się stało? 6. Nie mogę znaleźć butów. 7. Są tutaj. 8. Dziękuję, mamo. 9. Nie ma za co. Lesson 2 1. Excuse me, sir. Do you have a minute? 2. Yes. How can I help you? 3. Where can I find the bakery? 4. Over there. 5. And where is the deli? 6. Go straight and turn right. 7. I have one more question. Where do I pay for these things? [which things? I'm not sure if I've understood it correctly :)] 8. I don’t know. I’m not a map. 1. Przepraszam, ma Pan chwilę? 2. Tak. Jak mogę Panu pomóc? 3. Gdzie znajdę piekarnię? 4. Tam. 5. A gdzie są delikatesy? 6. Proszę iść prosto, a potem skręcić w prawo. 7. Mam jeszcze jedno pytanie. Gdzie zapłacę za te rzeczy? 8. Nie wiem. Nie jestem mapą! [better: Nie jestem informacją turystyczną!] Lesson 3 1. I would like one pound of ham, please. 2. Is that all? 3. Yeah. 4. That will be two dollars. 5. But I only have one dollar. 6. Too bad. 7. Do you accept credit cards? 8. Of course! That solves the problem. 9. I was scared for a second. 1. Poproszę funt szynki. 2. To wszystko? 3. Tak. 4. To będą dwa dolary. 5. Ale ja mam tylko jednego dolara. 6. A to pech! 7. Czy można płacić kartą? 8. Oczywiście! To po kłopocie. 9. Przez chwilę już się bałem. Actually, it should be translated literally back into English as it's not an exact translation - I wanted to make it sound "Polish". And I'm not sure about the units of measure; I have never bought a POUND of ham in my life, so I don't think that's something a foreigner in Poland would need. Edited by Julie on 28 May 2008 at 2:40pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Russianbear Triglot Senior Member United States Joined 6587 days ago 358 posts - 422 votes 1 sounds Speaks: Russian*, English, Ukrainian Studies: Spanish | Message 26 of 130 28 May 2008 at 2:36pm | IP Logged | ||
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I have a couple of comments.
First, you have to be careful about constructing sentences in a way that would guarantee translatability in as many languages as possible. For example take the sentense "I’m not a map." I am not sure this can be translated word for word into Russian, as the literal translation would be rather weird. The closest I can think of would be literally "I am not an information Bureau" (Edit: I see it is similar in Polish - as Julie posted that the literal "Nie jestem mapą" isn't as good as "Nie jestem informacją turystyczną"]. So, no matter how I translate it, it is a problem : either it reinforces the notion that you can say "I’m not a map" in Russian and not get a blank stare - or it mixes up the words and just confuses the learner. And another thing: I think is may be more difficult than just throwing some sensentces together and translating them. For example, things like how many words per lesson are to be introduced, as well as when/how often to reinforce them will have to be considered. The method will probably not be as effective as we just put together sentences without bothering about some of these variables. Edited by Russianbear on 28 May 2008 at 3:05pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| BGreco Senior Member Joined 6205 days ago 211 posts - 222 votes 3 sounds Speaks: English* Studies: French, Spanish | Message 27 of 130 28 May 2008 at 2:42pm | IP Logged | ||
Very true. I'll try to work it out so that the sentences are pretty universal. Once we branch off from the Romance/Germanic languages, literal English translations could also be provided to at least provide a large group of users with a detailed explanation, if not every single person using it. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Julie Heptaglot Senior Member PolandRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 6715 days ago 1251 posts - 1733 votes 5 sounds Speaks: Polish*, EnglishB2, GermanC2, SpanishB2, Dutch, Swedish, French | Message 28 of 130 28 May 2008 at 2:50pm | IP Logged | ||
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Is it really necessary to provide exact the same versions in all languages? Of course it means much less work (as far as translations are concerned) but I find it very important to teach correct and living language. I won't say "I'm not a map" in Polish, I'd rather say "I can't find shoes" than "I can't find my shoes", I don't usually ask "Do you accept credit cards?" but (literally) "May I pay by card?" etc.
1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Russianbear Triglot Senior Member United States Joined 6587 days ago 358 posts - 422 votes 1 sounds Speaks: Russian*, English, Ukrainian Studies: Spanish | Message 29 of 130 28 May 2008 at 2:51pm | IP Logged | ||
Literal translation would have to be provided for both languages if we want it to work both ways. In a way, this need to express what something means literally is probably the biggest obstacle. One thing can be said 1 way in English, another way in Spanish and yet another way in Russian. And each of those things may not be translatable word for word in the other two languages. So for the course be of value, there will need to be as many supplementary literal translations between different pairs of languages as there are language pairs in the project, which was the problem with Assimil in the first place. The only alternative to it is a collection of sentences that would be absolutely idiom-free, but then again, idioms are a substantial part of any language, and course without idioms would only take you so far. Edited by Russianbear on 28 May 2008 at 3:04pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| BGreco Senior Member Joined 6205 days ago 211 posts - 222 votes 3 sounds Speaks: English* Studies: French, Spanish | Message 30 of 130 28 May 2008 at 2:53pm | IP Logged | ||
That will also be an important thing to consider. I have asked Professor Arguelles for his advice and will be reading through the Assimil courses I have to see how they handle it, especially things like introducing new verb tenses. I think it is reasonable to have grammar/vocab explanations in English, which will be the base language of most the people using this. Edited by BGreco on 28 May 2008 at 2:54pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Julie Heptaglot Senior Member PolandRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 6715 days ago 1251 posts - 1733 votes 5 sounds Speaks: Polish*, EnglishB2, GermanC2, SpanishB2, Dutch, Swedish, French | Message 31 of 130 28 May 2008 at 3:01pm | IP Logged | ||
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It may be too ambitious but it wouldn't be bad to translate grammar/vocab explanations into other languages than English as well, to make it usable for people who don't speak English well enough. At least, I can translate all the explanations into Polish when they're ready, and add some extra explanations for Polish speakers (in languages I know
or learn). I find the idea of an Assimil-like course excellent, and you can definitely count on me. The problem of introducing and repeating vocabulary and grammar structures is even more complicated as there's no perfect sequence for all the languages... 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| BGreco Senior Member Joined 6205 days ago 211 posts - 222 votes 3 sounds Speaks: English* Studies: French, Spanish | Message 32 of 130 28 May 2008 at 3:07pm | IP Logged | ||
There are a few ways this could be worked out. 1. Provide a literal translation into English. (Very little work) 2. Make new dialogues for every language. (This would require so much work that I don't think anybody would be willing to do it, so I consider this out of the question) 3. The same English course could be used, but modified to fit each language. The translator could have the freedom to change sentences around. (This would be more work than number 1, but less than number 2. It is the best balance I can think of. It would also require the base language to be English.) 1 person has voted this message useful |
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