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NeonQwerty’s Italian and German thread | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Language Learning Log |  | |
| ChiaBrain Bilingual Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 5618 days ago 402 posts - 512 votes  Speaks: English*, Spanish* Studies: Portuguese, Italian, French Studies: German | Message 105 of 206 21 February 2009 at 2:08am | IP Logged |
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Congratulations and best wishes!
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| neonqwerty Bilingual Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 5973 days ago 229 posts - 239 votes Speaks: French*, English* Studies: Spanish | Message 106 of 206 14 June 2009 at 10:34pm | IP Logged |
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Ladies and Gentlemen, the Qwerty is back!
I stopped updating this blog because I didn't have time to study consistently. Given that, it's only fair that I include an update as to what I've been up to in lieu of studying Italian. It basically boils down to a lot of school work. More than I've ever done, actually. I'm nonetheless very proud and happy with where I'm at, school-wise. I finished everything that I need to do in order to get my Masters, I presented at a conference, and starting next fall I'm going to a top-level school (for my program) to do my doctorate. The people in the program seem wonderful, it's in a gorgeous location, etc. etc. etc. Lots of work and stress, but it really has been worth it. Ok, let's get up to speed here with where I'm at Italian-wise. Basically, I'm much further along than when I stopped updating. I've been studying pretty intensely for the past 2-3 weeks, and it's really showing. A few days ago I was really tickled pink when I realized that I was listening to the newscast and actually following the news, as opposed to trying to patch together small bits of understanding. What I've been doing is studying vocabulary for an hour and listening (or watching) news for an hour. Google "Repubblica podcast" and click on the first link if you want to find my go-to site for audio stuff. Some days I do more. I do this six days a week, with Saturdays being off. Remember that vocab book? I've finished the "basic" vocab in it and review it weekly. The review used to be daily, but as of last week I've starting going through my Italian grammar book. A tangent here: I'm going to weigh in on the "learn the language naturally" versus "drill words and grammar" school of thought. My experience over the past few weeks have led me to feel that it's super important to drill vocabulary and to try to expand it mechanically via wordlists. I really think that this was the key to what I consider to be a quantum leap in my grasp of Italian. Listening to broadcasts is nice and helpful in order to learn, but it only works if you have a certain number of "blocks" (words) committed to memory. Without knowing a certain percentage of the words being used, it just becomes an exercise in futility. Even if I tried to maintain a positive attitude, my brain would just shut down if and when it was barely understanding any of the words being used. Right now I'm approaching what I think of as the endgame of my Italian studies... I have the following left to do: (not necessarily in order) -finish the grammar book -finish the "advanced vocabulary" section of my vocab book -do the Michel Thomas vocabulary builder Honestly, after that, I really think that "natural materials" (books, articles, radio / TV) will comprise 90% of my Italian "work"; I'll still want to review the grammar book and vocabulary regularly, though. At this point I don't know how good my writing and speaking is, but I don't care very much. I'm sure it's at least reasonable, and I'm more concerned with passive understanding than active engagement for the moment. If I want to get good at writing / speaking in the future, I'm sure that I'll be able to do so quickly. Three last things: 1)I won't have a fixed schedule to update this blog, but I'm very excited about the progress I've made so far 2)I'm amazed that even though I've come so far, there is still so much more for me to learn! I'm not looking for perfection, but I am looking for a high standard. Sometimes I think that people would never bother trying to learn languages if they knew from the outset how much there was to learn... 3)As far as my goals are concerned, let's divide it into Plan A and Plan B: PLAN A: The ideal plan. I leave Chicago for Montreal sometime around July 24; I'd absolutely love to have finished all three of the previously listed points. "Finished" as far as the books are concerned means having gone over them multiple times, to the point where I'm getting confident (but not necessarily mastered) the material. Then I go to Montreal and begin studying German again, while dedicating ~5 hours a week to keeping up and solidifying my Italian PLAN B: I keep working on Italian in Montreal and begin the German once I get to San Diego in September, giving me about 2-3 weeks to work on German before the semester starts. I'd really like to avoid this, though... I know that things will be nuts in San Diego (moving into a new place, misc school stuff, general stress, etc.), and I'd like to get a good chunk of German done before school starts, if for no other reason than because I mentioned that I understand "some" German (poorly) in my application. In fairness, it was true at the time... :-) All this with the background that I'm learning some math stuff and doing some school reading. I don't mind ignoring the reading a bit for the sake of language learning, but the math stuff is super important and takes precedence. WHEW! If you made it this far, you're excellent. Have a biscotto. Veramente, sono tanto felice di potere studiare l'italiano ancora una volta! Forse scrivero alcuni messaggi qui un giorno... 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| neonqwerty Bilingual Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 5973 days ago 229 posts - 239 votes Speaks: French*, English* Studies: Spanish | Message 107 of 206 15 June 2009 at 8:58pm | IP Logged |
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Watched 30 mins of news on RAI 24, and studied verb tenses for ~ an hour. Today was (using French descriptives here...) passé composé, plus-que-parfait, future antérieur, conditionel passé. I recently went over present, imparfait, futur simple, and conditionnel present.
The good news is that my knowledge of French makes all this intuitively easy for me. The bad news is that I'm having a hell of a time going from one tense to the next. I really think it's just a matter of practice and drilling; once I'm done with the book, I'll make a note of what I was weak on and focus on that when reviewing. I'm going to the gym, and on my way home (or there) I'll listen to a ~30 minute news report on the Iranian election fiasco, rounding out my "required" studying of the day. I may end up doing some more, but I doubt it. 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| neonqwerty Bilingual Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 5973 days ago 229 posts - 239 votes Speaks: French*, English* Studies: Spanish | Message 108 of 206 16 June 2009 at 9:03pm | IP Logged |
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Fantastic work since my last post!
Yesterday evening I listened to the news report, and threw in a few pages of reading from my current "real" book, "Un Anno Monastico". The book is surprisingly good, and I'm pleased with how much I understand. This morning I listened to an hour of news; I have mixed feelings about how that went. The first half wasn't so hot; I was tired and was listening to it on the train, so I had trouble hearing and focusing at times. The second half was much better, although even then I'd only give myself a 7/10 when it comes to focus. At that point I took a caffeine pill and went to the library to study for an hour before going to the gym. The library time was GREAT! I started the subjunctive today, and I was honestly quite intimidated by it; I remember having trouble with it when going through the Michel Thomas Advanced course. In any event, seeing it on paper and doing lots of exercises really boosted my confidence; the subjunctive really isn't a big deal after all! I finished the section on the present and present perfect, and I'm happy with how well I did. At this point my main verb-related problem isn't so much any one tense, but going from one tense to another. As long as the verb tenses aren't changing, I can blast through exercises with no problem. When I go over the material again (after finishing the book a first time), I'll take verb exercises and figure out some way to randomize what tense I use in order to complete said exercises. As a bonus, I started going over the imperfect subjunctive on the bus ride home; I'll go over it again at the beginning of tomorrow's study session, but it looks quite simple. Hopefully the imperative will prove to be this rewarding. :-) Incidentally, I really feel that having a book that gives me explicit grammar rules has been helpful. No, I don't just memorize the rules; there are a zillion cases in which the use of the subjunctive is appropriate. But reading over the rules helps me do the exercises, and the exercises are what really teach me. When I get something wrong, it's nice to be able to refer to a theoretical reason as to why it's wrong... When I don't have a reason that I can refer to, I end up getting frustrated and don't really "feel" the correct answer to the question I got wrong. A domani! 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| KiwiKiwi Tetraglot Groupie Belgium Joined 5506 days ago 50 posts - 50 votes Speaks: Dutch*, English, German, French Studies: Italian, Russian | Message 109 of 206 17 June 2009 at 3:12pm | IP Logged |
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Your doing good i see! :) Good luck to you. I hope to learn some from your log as i also learn Italian. I know everyone has his/her own way, but i'm alway curious for tips.
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| neonqwerty Bilingual Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 5973 days ago 229 posts - 239 votes Speaks: French*, English* Studies: Spanish | Message 110 of 206 18 June 2009 at 6:33am | IP Logged |
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Thanks for the encouragement, KiwiKiwi! I hope that your Italian studies prove to be successful!
Today wasn't fantastic. Yesterday evening, in a spurt of of enthusiasm, I studied longer than I should have. This morning I just felt generally burnt out with the process. I watched some historical stuff on RAI's "La Storia Siamo Noi"... The first half hour, I was pretty much in zombie mode, but things picked up by the end. The last 10-15 minutes were the most engaging; it was an interview with Romano Prodi, a man who speaks mercifully clearly and slowwwly. All in all, I logged maybe an hour watching RAI. I kept studying grammar, but only managed maybe 30-35 minutes before calling it quits just now. I'm exhausted and mentally drained. A few thoughts: 1)Without being over-dramatic about it, I'm just drained 2)Language learning really does have ups and downs. Today made me really realize that I still need to focus in order to understand what's going on when watching Italian television 3)Some days are just better than others. The same content can seem obvious one day and positively baffling the next. You gotta take the bitter with the better, but it still is discouraging when you come across those bad days 4)I'm not going to slow down. I oftentimes compare language learning to exercise, and I had a thought today... Sometimes you need to back off an exercise regimen, or else you overtrain and end up being counterproductive. The need to back off is usually signaled by increasing fatigue, decreasing motivation to train etc. The problem is that there are times when these situations are precisely the ones in which you need to train harder to blast past a plateau. You can make educated guesses borne out of experience, but you can never be sure which of these opposing reactions are appropriate when the going gets rough. In this case, I feel as though I need to keep on blasting through Italian for at least another month, until I head back to Montreal. Having said that, I think I'm going to limit my study time to 2 1/2 hours per day, with the exception of listening to as much Italian rap as I want. So: a rough day, but not a waste. I did get some good work done, and lessons were learned re: how much I should be working 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| neonqwerty Bilingual Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 5973 days ago 229 posts - 239 votes Speaks: French*, English* Studies: Spanish | Message 111 of 206 19 June 2009 at 1:25am | IP Logged |
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Today I realized with 95% certainty that I'm burning out, probably mostly due to my physical exercise regimen but also in part because of my intensive studies (remember, a few weeks ago I went from not studying Italian at all to a minimum of 2 hours a day). There's nothing alarmist or self-deprecating here; I have enough experience to know that I just need to back off slightly for a week.
Today I listened to podcasts for an hour, and it really was an interesting experience... I was getting frustrated because I wasn't understanding, but it occurred to me that I wasn't trying to focus. When I did focus, I understood quite well. The problem was sustaining that focus, something I was able to do for the past few weeks. I'll continue doing my grammar studies after I write this post, and while I've been noticing the same thing happening there, it's not nearly as pronouced. In any event, next week I'll cut down my physical training quite a bit. As far as Italian goes, I've decided that next week I'll keep studying grammar and vocabulary for an hour a day, but not do any listening or video watching. That'll give me some breathing room, and the ability to go through the material at a lackadaisical pace. One last thought: it's funny how it works... I'm frustrated by my lack of ability, but I've made tremendous improvements in a matter of weeks! Here's how it works: I get frustrated because I can see "the next level" but I'm not there yet. Then I hit that level, am surprised and overjoyed for anywhere between an hour to a day, and then see the next level! I can appreciate (intellectually and viscerally) my progress, but doing so requires a real act of will. Without this act of will, I forget that although I feel the same way I did a month ago, my Italian is noticeably better nonetheless. 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| neonqwerty Bilingual Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 5973 days ago 229 posts - 239 votes Speaks: French*, English* Studies: Spanish | Message 112 of 206 22 June 2009 at 5:23pm | IP Logged |
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I started my "relaxed week" yesterday.
Yesterday I studied new vocabulary for ~45 minutes before going to sleep. Today I studied some more for an hour. I switched from grammar to vocabulary for a few reasons. First, I need to do them both anyway, so it doesn't make much of a difference. Second, I was getting a little fed up with grammar and wanted a break. Third, I've noticed that the bulk of the problems I encounter when dealing with Italian is quite simply not knowing what a world means; my previous vocabulary drilling was extremely helpful in upgrading my comprehension, so finishing off my vocab book (recall that I went through all the "basic" words in Mastering Italian Vocabulary; I'm now going through the advanced ones) should give me the quickest results in the shortest period of time. The fourth and most relevant reason, seeing as how this is my "week off", is that studying wordlists is actually the most enjoyable part of learning the language for me. Weird, eh? I've done audio, grammar drills, read authentic novels, authentic newspaper articles, watched movies, watched broadcasts... and yet studying wordlists is what really does it for me. I have a method that works for me, it's easy and conceptually simply to revise, and you can usually tell quite easily how well you're progressing. In a sense, vocabulary lists are the cleanest mode of study, and that's probably why it appeals to me. The very valid concern that I'll only be able to recall the words in the context of the lists has proven to be unfounded... I'm very pleasantly surprised at how easily I'm able to integrate the vocabulary into my comprehension and sentence formation. That's it for today! 1 person has voted this message useful |
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