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Are we all a bunch of wusses? | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : General discussion |  | |
| Lizzern Diglot Senior Member Norway Joined 5722 days ago 791 posts - 1053 votes  Speaks: Norwegian*, English Studies: Japanese | Message 137 of 151 10 December 2009 at 12:17am | IP Logged | ||
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Definitely not the norm, no. I think in general the best we can hope for is that people speak understandably. Some people are very difficult to understand though, even some who have been speaking the language for years - a real shame, because it probably wouldn't be that hard for them to clean up their speech just enough to make themselves less painful to listen to.
Not everyone aims for a native accent but I think it's a worthwhile goal personally :-) Don't get me wrong, I have no illusions about ever being mistaken for a native speaker in person (serious colour palette issues) but I do want to speak the languages I bother to learn, as properly as I can learn to speak them. And it looks to me like that means getting a native accent too, so it's a natural goal for me. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Gusutafu Senior Member Sweden Joined 5334 days ago 655 posts - 1039 votes Speaks: Swedish* | Message 138 of 151 10 December 2009 at 12:25am | IP Logged | ||
I have one friend from Bosnia, she came here in her early teens and speaks absolutely flawlessly, with a much greater vocabulary than most Swedes (she studies literature). She does sound a tiny bit foreign though, not so much in her prosody as in a certain tenseness, but that may also be due to her character, she is sort of uptight, although less so recently. That's my only example, except a Norwegian girl (nynorsk) that could pass as being from Wermland after 6 months here, but that doesn't really count. Be careful Cordelia, your next post will be your thousandth! When will you and Lizzern post your accents? I can't wait to hear them in all their native glory! JW: I see what you mean, perhaps it's a problem that you wouldn't pass my test either. I'll have to think about it, possibly it IS fair to judge foreigners by another standard, your English is a bonafide mix but theirs shouldn't be, then it'd be too easy to always "come from some other place". As to the possibility of becoming totally native, I don't believe in it. I think that you can fool some of the people etc. Or rather, it's just a matter of how long you can fool someone. If it turns out that you were born in the 70's but don't know Sesame street, or that you don't know the word wuss, the game is up. So this, as everything else, is really a question of degrees. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| JW Hexaglot Senior Member United States youtube.com/user/egw Joined 5935 days ago 1802 posts - 2011 votes 22 sounds Speaks: English*, German, Spanish, Ancient Greek, French, Biblical Hebrew Studies: Luxembourgish, Dutch, Greek, Italian | Message 139 of 151 10 December 2009 at 12:30am | IP Logged | ||
Ditto for me! 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Lizzern Diglot Senior Member Norway Joined 5722 days ago 791 posts - 1053 votes Speaks: Norwegian*, English Studies: Japanese | Message 140 of 151 10 December 2009 at 12:35am | IP Logged | ||
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If the internet wasn't such a crazy, crazy place - I might post something. But can't really trust it. Appreciate the sarcasm though.
A native speaker can speak a mix of dialects and still be a native speaker. Very common in Norwegian, people take on traits from dialects from other areas that they've had extensive exposure to. If a non-native speaker mixes dialects in the same way, I think it would mostly be looked upon as a mistake. And yeah, non-natives ARE judged by a different standard, partly based on cultural knowledge. But not all native speakers will know everything either. Pockets of native speakers will have their own little world of things only they know about. Not everyone watches the same things on TV. Some things are universal, sure, but other things will confuse a native speaker just as much as a non-native speaker - it's all a matter of exposure. And I do think that some people make a point of putting non-native speakers down if they find some small area of inferiority, as if that detracts from their achievement at all. Obviously cultural knowledge is important to be able to take part in what's going on around you, but it can be used against you as well. 3 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| JW Hexaglot Senior Member United States youtube.com/user/egw Joined 5935 days ago 1802 posts - 2011 votes 22 sounds Speaks: English*, German, Spanish, Ancient Greek, French, Biblical Hebrew Studies: Luxembourgish, Dutch, Greek, Italian | Message 141 of 151 10 December 2009 at 3:59am | IP Logged | ||
It just popped into my head that Fasulye speaks Dutch with a native accent and I think she learned it as an adult. Perhaps she would like to take the video challenge? I know she has a video of herself speaking Dutch...
Good point. I heard an American say that when she was in Spain and used Ustedes she was corrected and told to use Vosotros--obviously that would not have happened to a Latin American native speaker. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| dbag Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 4835 days ago 605 posts - 1046 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Spanish | Message 142 of 151 09 July 2011 at 1:08am | IP Logged | ||
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I have just read through this entire thread, and feel it raises some important topics.
I think the issue of learning a language to access and learn about new cultures has not been sufficently explored.
Is it true that in languages such as Mandarin, there are concepts for which there is no adequate translation even possible in English? This is what would atract me towards learning an Asian language. At the moment, my perception of the world is filtered through the English Language. I would like to learn a language which would expand my mind by enabling me to percieve the world in new and fundamentally different ways. I think this would expand my horizons in ways which go way beyond simply being able to accsess lIiterature in the original. I suppose even in Spanish one can think about the world in different ways , as reflected in their use of two different verbs for "to be". I have many thoughts which my native language simply doesnt allow me to express. I have a feeling that Asian languages would possibly bring my closer to these thoughts than would another European language. And what about being able to access different political views? I feel that English is a culturally dominant language which reflects the world view of the powerful in society, and its media will often reflect this. I have heard that French media , for example, often seeks to challenge this hegemony. Is this true? Edited by dbag on 09 July 2011 at 1:10am 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| vientito Senior Member Canada Joined 6151 days ago 212 posts - 281 votes | Message 143 of 151 09 July 2011 at 5:46pm | IP Logged | ||
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It takes immense courage and patience to learn and perfect a language skill. How could
that be considered as an act of a "wuss"? Live, and let live. 3 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| dbag Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 4835 days ago 605 posts - 1046 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Spanish | Message 144 of 151 09 July 2011 at 11:37pm | IP Logged | ||
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It takes patience to learn a language, thats undeniable. But whats so couragous about it?
1 person has voted this message useful |
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