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Are we all a bunch of wusses? | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : General discussion |  | |
| maya_star17 Bilingual Tetraglot Senior Member Canada Joined 5728 days ago 269 posts - 291 votes  Speaks: English*, Russian*, French, Spanish Studies: Japanese | Message 33 of 151 17 December 2008 at 8:15am | IP Logged | |||||
Also, as I mentioned in the previous post, I admitted in my original post (and am wiling to admit anew) that I myself am just as much a wuss as anyone, probably even more so than some/many. The point of this thread isn't to accuse anyone, but rather to question a general trend that I've observed among language learners (not only on this forum). 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
 Iversen Super Polyglot Moderator Denmark berejst.dk Joined 6516 days ago 9078 posts - 16473 votes Speaks: Danish*, French, English, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, Swedish, Esperanto, Romanian, Catalan Studies: Afrikaans, Greek, Norwegian, Russian, Serbian, Icelandic, Latin, Irish, Lowland Scots, Indonesian, Polish, Croatian Personal Language Map | Message 34 of 151 17 December 2008 at 8:55am | IP Logged | |||||
I think I can recognize that combination of languages... My goal is not to learn exotic languages, - even though I can see that others can be fascinated by that aspect. Instead my goal is to be able to read and understand and preferably even think, write and speak every single language in those language families that I deal with, and then it is much more efficient to start out with those that I already have something in common with. If I started to learn for instance Japanese then it would probably take me just as long time as learning all the languages you mention. It is fine to learn Japanese or Mandarin or Arabic, and I know that each of these languages opens up for a lot of cultural background, but we all have limited time and capacity, and I have chosen to invest mine in covering my local soil instead of planting a lonely flag somewhere. The number of speakers is not a very relevant factor for me. If you take that aspect in account then the logical thing would be to focus on those persons with whom I have a real chance to speak here in my neighborhood, and that would primarily be the immigrant languages: Arabic, Urdu and Turkish, maybe also Vietnamese (plus a number of Indoeuropean languages which I already know). When I'm through with the Slavic language family then it is not impossible that I might be interested in learning one of those languages. However the number of written sources could be seen as more relevant than the number of speakers for a person like me who read and write more in foreign languages than I speak them, - and then Icelandic with just a quarter of a million speakers is just as important as a major Dravidic language. The same applies to Latin that may not have one single living native speaker. Finally the number of grammars and dictionaries is also important, - it is more important for me that there is ONE good dictionary and ONE good grammar than one million native speakers far from here. As I said, I can understand and sympathize with people who want to learn distant and exotic languages, but we have different priorities. Edited by Iversen on 17 December 2008 at 9:00am 3 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| Juan M. Senior Member Colombia Joined 5712 days ago 460 posts - 597 votes | Message 35 of 151 17 December 2008 at 9:10am | IP Logged | |||||
I disagree with you about those two points. While there are consequential and meaningful differences between the worldviews of a Germany and a France, and while Europe does indeed contain great diversity, all of its nations still are very much a part of our Western Civilization, and the distinctions between them shrink dramatically by comparison when put beside the other great societies that maya_star17 mentions. Second, about India's and China's ascent to prosperity, while on the surface they may seem to converge to our way of doing things, the social, cultural and religious institutions underlaying those changes are dramatically different from our own. Theirs remain starkly distinct conceptions of man and society, even though the sight of modern cities and industry on their lands might appear to obscure that reality. Keeping this in mind, what maya_star17 says is very much true. The cultural payoff for a Westerner from learning Mandarin is much, much greater than going from English, French and German to Italian or Spanish. What I do question of his or her position is that direct communication with regular people can provide a greater perspective on their culture than reading their literature and scholarship, and that the importance of a language can be gleaned by its size rather than its effective cultural achievements. 3 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| Juan M. Senior Member Colombia Joined 5712 days ago 460 posts - 597 votes | Message 36 of 151 17 December 2008 at 9:18am | IP Logged | |||||
The OP was simply being provocative, not aggressive. Regrettably, the same cannot be said about your post. 5 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| Juan M. Senior Member Colombia Joined 5712 days ago 460 posts - 597 votes | Message 37 of 151 17 December 2008 at 9:28am | IP Logged | |||||
Complete agreement. Let me just qualify your statement by adding quality to the quantity of written sources as my main criterion for learning a language. 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| frenkeld Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 6756 days ago 2042 posts - 2719 votes Speaks: Russian*, English Studies: German | Message 38 of 151 17 December 2008 at 10:11am | IP Logged | |||||
But are you correct in calling even just yourself a wuss? Going by your language list, you are studying Japanese, you have a good knowledge of French, and you have some level of knowledge of Spanish. Japanese is hard and exotic enough to attest to your mettle, while French was something that you started young, and you are a Canadian, after all. So, where is the problem? Spanish instead of Cantonese or Hindi? Having listened to bits of Italian out of curiosity? Edited by frenkeld on 17 December 2008 at 10:13am 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| frenkeld Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 6756 days ago 2042 posts - 2719 votes Speaks: Russian*, English Studies: German | Message 39 of 151 17 December 2008 at 11:08am | IP Logged | |||||
What about learning about that culture in translation first? After all, one may end up deciding that one is not all that interested, or at least that one is interested in other cultures (perhaps one's own) even more, and time is a zero sum game. Edited by frenkeld on 17 December 2008 at 11:27am 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| solidsnake Diglot Senior Member China Joined 6854 days ago 469 posts - 488 votes Speaks: English*, Mandarin | Message 40 of 151 17 December 2008 at 11:19am | IP Logged | |||||
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I think the point about language materials is quite relevant. Studying E. Asian languages is so hard because you are forced to choose between either books written by E. Asian natives who don't know how to translate the subtleties of their language into English, or you have books written by westerners who don't truly get the subtleties in the first place!
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