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The role and usefulness of Irish | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Specific Languages |  | |
| Teango Triglot Winner TAC 2010 & 2012 Senior Member United States teango.wordpress.comRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5351 days ago 2210 posts - 3734 votes  Speaks: English*, German, Russian Studies: Hawaiian, French, Toki Pona | Message 105 of 162 17 March 2012 at 1:01pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
Do I believe the Ukrainians I've spoken to over the years who say that Ukrainian was oppressed? Yes I do, and furthermore, I think that it is wonderful that there is a revival of the Ukrainian language now.
To clarify further on this, Ukrainian has weathered several different periods during the Soviet era. This ranges from periods of tolerance to suppression and persecution: "During the seven-decade-long Soviet era, the Ukrainian language held the formal position of the principal local language in the Ukrainian SSR. However, practice was often a different story." [ source: Ukrainian Language - Soviet Era ] "Starting from the early 1930s, the Ukrainization policies were abruptly and bloodily reversed. "Ukrainian bourgeois nationalism" was declared to be the primary problem in Ukraine. Many Ukrainian newspapers, publications, and schools were switched to Russian. The vast majority of leading scholars and cultural leaders of Ukraine were purged, as were the "Ukrainianized" and "Ukrainianizing" portions of the Communist party.... ...In the following fifty years the Soviet policies towards the Ukrainian language mostly varied between quiet discouragement and suppression to persecution and cultural purges, with the notable exception for the decade of Shelest's leadership in the Soviet Ukraine (1963–1972)." [ source: Ukrainian Language - Early-1930s to mid-1980s ] And the oppression of the Ukrainian language began well before the Soviet era, which makes the achievement of reviving the language even more inspirational: "...in the Russian Empire expressions of Ukrainian culture and especially language were repeatedly persecuted, for fear that a self-aware Ukrainian nation would threaten the unity of the Empire. In 1804 Ukrainian as a subject and as language of instruction was banned from schools." [ source: Ukrainian Language - Under Lithuania/Poland, Muscovy/Russia, and Austro-Hungary (5th paragraph down) ] I initially mentioned Ukrainian as I thought it was a good example of how a language can still be revived even after long periods of persecution, and this I believe offers hope for the Irish language too. However, as aodhanc rightly noted, this thread is about Irish and not Ukrainian, so I'd appreciate it if we could return to the topic, especially as it's St Patrick's Day today. Beannachtaí na Féile Pádraig! (Happy St Patrick's Day) :) 4 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Gallo1801 Diglot Senior Member Spain Joined 4697 days ago 164 posts - 248 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish Studies: Arabic (Written), Croatian, German, French | Message 106 of 162 17 March 2012 at 3:57pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
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Why is this now a Russian v. Ukrainian thread?
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| Марк Senior Member Russian Federation Joined 4851 days ago 2096 posts - 2972 votes Speaks: Russian* | Message 107 of 162 17 March 2012 at 4:53pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
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Volte and Teango, you are using Ukrainian nationalistic and Russophobic resourses without
any critical analysis and without any knowledge of the historical, linguistic and social situation. 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Teango Triglot Winner TAC 2010 & 2012 Senior Member United States teango.wordpress.comRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5351 days ago 2210 posts - 3734 votes Speaks: English*, German, Russian Studies: Hawaiian, French, Toki Pona | Message 108 of 162 17 March 2012 at 5:11pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
Once again, Happy St Patrick's Day!
(image by Supportstorm, source: Wikipedia) 3 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Марк Senior Member Russian Federation Joined 4851 days ago 2096 posts - 2972 votes Speaks: Russian* | Message 109 of 162 17 March 2012 at 5:21pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
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Lá Phádraig sóna dhaoibh. Edited by Марк on 17 March 2012 at 6:54pm 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Марк Senior Member Russian Federation Joined 4851 days ago 2096 posts - 2972 votes Speaks: Russian* | Message 110 of 162 17 March 2012 at 5:33pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
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Irish is heavily oppressed in Ireland. Only 10 % of children study in irish medium
schools and so on. Doesn't it seem stupid? 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| aodhanc Diglot Groupie Iceland Joined 6055 days ago 92 posts - 130 votes Speaks: English*, FrenchB2 Studies: Spanish | Message 111 of 162 17 March 2012 at 6:07pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
Mapk, I wouldn't agree that it's oppressed. It's simply not promoted or encouraged. However it was certainly oppressed during British colonial rule, which drove it to the brink of extinction. For example, if a priest was found to be saying Mass in Irish, he would be taken from the church to a nearby forest and executed. While only 10% today study in Irish-medium schools, the remaining 90% still have Irish as a compulsory subject for the duration of primary and secondary education. So in theory at least, everyone should be proficient in it. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Марк Senior Member Russian Federation Joined 4851 days ago 2096 posts - 2972 votes Speaks: Russian* | Message 112 of 162 17 March 2012 at 6:36pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
Really? Could you give some proof? it's hard to believe. Yes, that's why I strongly oppose the statement that Ukrainian was oppressed in the Soviet time, because there were Ukrainian schools, institutes and universities, media, books in Ukrainian (more than now), it was a copulsory subject at schools, documents were written in Ukrainian too. But the general usage was smaller than Russian, because Russian was a more useful language. It seems to me that The Great Famine in Ireland suits to be a holodomor much more. Edited by Марк on 17 March 2012 at 6:40pm 2 persons have voted this message useful |
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