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Is Polish really that hard? | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Specific Languages |  | |
| Kubelek Tetraglot Senior Member Switzerland chomikuj.pl/Kuba_wal Joined 6646 days ago 415 posts - 528 votes  Speaks: Polish*, EnglishC2, French, Spanish Studies: German | Message 25 of 125 15 May 2010 at 12:49am | IP Logged | |||||
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between cz and ć/ci?
Without referring to IPA it's hard to explain... but one thing is sure, they are very different to our ears. czeszę się - I'm combing my hair cieszę się - I'm happy I used to tease my American girlfriend when she pronounced these wrong. "Ć" was the sound that took her the longest to master. You will be understood, but it doesn't sound very good. English /ch/ is not the same as 'cz', either. I know it's not easy to hear the difference at first because I had the reverse problem. As for the article... that kid is in for a rude awakening when he realises that Polish kids also talk about parties and whatnot, they skip classes and hate cramming. Maybe he was a late bloomer. I know the school in question quite well, and while it is one of the best in Lodz, its pupils are still just teenagers. But the truth wouldn't demonstrate their point, so no wonder. Edited by Kubelek on 15 May 2010 at 12:52am 7 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| Przemek Hexaglot Senior Member Poland multigato.blogspot.c Joined 6269 days ago 107 posts - 174 votes Speaks: Polish*, English, SpanishC2, Italian, Portuguese, French Studies: Turkish, Hindi, Arabic (Written) | Message 26 of 125 15 May 2010 at 9:47am | IP Logged | |||||
As shown before, the level of education in Poland is much higher than in many other European countries, and the States. Saying that the education level is low, because many Poles don't speak English well is... something I can't understand. It's like saying "English is the most important thing, if you don't know it, you know nothing". You have to be aware of one thing. During socialist times we couldn't travel abroad, so many of older people didn't feel any need to learn foreign languages. Now we can, so more and more people learn English and speak it very well. Apart from that, we learn many other languages, many Poles speak German, French, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Russian, Turkish, Arabic or Hindi. We are very eager to learn about other cultures, traditions, languages. Edited by Przemek on 15 May 2010 at 9:48am 14 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| Derian Triglot Senior Member PolandRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5102 days ago 227 posts - 464 votes Speaks: Polish*, English, German Studies: Spanish, Russian, Czech, French, Mandarin, Japanese | Message 27 of 125 15 May 2010 at 12:46pm | IP Logged | |||||
It is crucial to distinguish between them. As a speaker - if you don't - you will be understood in most cases, although not rarely without confusion or small misunderstandings. As a listener - if you don't - you would confuse words that have different meanings and not always get what's being said. This distinction actually concerns 4 corresponding English sounds: sh (as in "shake"), ch (as in "chalk"), g (as in "gene") and also "j" as in the French word "Jacques". These four fall somewhere inbetween the pairs of the Polish sounds which they correspond to: ś -- sh -- sz ć -- ch -- cz ź -- j -- ż dź -- g -- dż [I hope you can see the Polish letters] [These have two spellings: ś/si, ć/ci, ź/zi, ż/rz, dź/dzi] The sounds on the left are very thin sounding, and the sounds on the right are very flat sounding (that's the best description I can think of :). Whereas the English ones sound as them both together, but neither in particular. So, we've got 8 sounds where the English have only 4 (this is probably why foreigners are struck by all those swishing noises Polish is known for). And so an English speaking Pole, like myself, differentiates between 12 different sounds, instead of just 4. Kubelek already gave you some examples how ć/cz can differentiate meaning. Here's some more for the other sounds as well: Kasia = Kate kasza = grits mieć = to have miecz = a sword [e.g. Chcę mieć miecz. = I want to have a sword.] maź = a fluid, a glop marz = imperative form of the verb 'to dream' /dżon/ = John [we spell it John, and pronounce it with a "dż"] dzion = a day (colloquial) Edited by Derian on 15 May 2010 at 12:53pm 5 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| chucknorrisman Triglot Senior Member United States Joined 5242 days ago 321 posts - 435 votes Speaks: Korean*, English, Spanish Studies: Russian, Mandarin, Lithuanian, French | Message 28 of 125 15 May 2010 at 3:05pm | IP Logged | |||||
This is too true. Koreans also mistakenly think that knowing English and mixing them indiscriminately with Korean is such an intelligent thing. They don't make them sound educated or intelligent, they are just ruining Korean even more. Of course it's good to know foreign languages, but the knowledge of them alone doesn't determine education levels. Edited by chucknorrisman on 15 May 2010 at 3:12pm 5 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| chucknorrisman Triglot Senior Member United States Joined 5242 days ago 321 posts - 435 votes Speaks: Korean*, English, Spanish Studies: Russian, Mandarin, Lithuanian, French | Message 29 of 125 15 May 2010 at 3:09pm | IP Logged | |||||
Thank you. I think I could also make a comparison with Mandarin pinyin, for the people who know it: Ś - corresponds to Mandarin "x" [ɕ] Sz - corresponds to "sh" [ʂ] Ć - corresponds to "j" [t͡ɕ] Cz - corresponds to "zh" [t͡ʂ] Edited by chucknorrisman on 15 May 2010 at 3:10pm 3 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| Faim de Siècle Diglot Newbie United States Joined 5601 days ago 36 posts - 39 votes Speaks: English*, French | Message 30 of 125 15 May 2010 at 3:56pm | IP Logged | |||||
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In terms of education differences, it comes down to what is to be valued more: rote memorization or analysis. Clearly both are useful, though in an age when computers have essentially assumed the former role, thoughtful analysis seems a more useful skill.
As for learning the language, do you have any suggestions as to books, programs, etc.? Edited by Faim de Siècle on 15 May 2010 at 3:56pm 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Martien Heptaglot Senior Member Netherlands martienvanwanrooij.n Joined 6899 days ago 134 posts - 148 votes Speaks: Dutch*, English, German, Spanish, Turkish, Italian, French Studies: Portuguese, Serbo-Croatian, Latin, Swedish, Arabic (Written) | Message 31 of 125 22 May 2010 at 5:12pm | IP Logged | |||||
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I am learning Polish now and one of the good sides of it is the fact that the stress is almost always on the penultimate syllable. I can imagine that at a first glance the writing system looks overwhelming but take in mind that there are a lot of combinations of letters that are pronounced as one sound but this combination is always behaving in the same way.. so when you see rz, you know you will have to pronounce it like s in leisure, when you see cz it is like ch in church whereas when you see "ea" in English it is not always predictable how you will have to pronounce it.
The seven cases can be hard to master but it will be helpful if you have a good knowledge of general grammar issues like subject, direct and indirect object. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Derian Triglot Senior Member PolandRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5102 days ago 227 posts - 464 votes Speaks: Polish*, English, German Studies: Spanish, Russian, Czech, French, Mandarin, Japanese | Message 32 of 125 22 May 2010 at 7:16pm | IP Logged | |||||
2 persons have voted this message useful |
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