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JujuLeCaribou Diglot Newbie Thailand myonlinefrencht Joined 4717 days ago 28 posts - 44 votes Speaks: French*, English Studies: Portuguese, Thai, German, Dutch
| Message 25 of 37 26 May 2012 at 2:36pm | IP Logged |
"elle a l'air intéressante" is wrong, because "intéressant" is an adjective that
modifies "air", not "elle".
For example, "cette voiture a l'air neuf", "cette histoire a l'air vrai" are correct.
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| akkadboy Triglot Senior Member France Joined 5422 days ago 264 posts - 497 votes Speaks: French*, English, Yiddish Studies: Latin, Ancient Egyptian, Welsh
| Message 26 of 37 26 May 2012 at 3:05pm | IP Logged |
It doesn't not seem to be that simple :
- Reverso
- a 1836 grammar book
This is only the first two links I came across but they seem to agree on the fact that being inanimate a "discussion" has no "air" in itself and thus the adjective is attribute of the subject.
Edited by akkadboy on 26 May 2012 at 3:12pm
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| Spiderkat Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 5826 days ago 175 posts - 248 votes Speaks: French*, English Studies: Russian
| Message 27 of 37 26 May 2012 at 3:08pm | IP Logged |
Here's an explanation about what should be written and what's correct or not. This is from Nouveau dictionnaire des difficultés du français moderne.
Quote:
Avoir l'aire (loc.v.)
- Peut signifier «sembler, paraître, avoir l'air d'être», et l'accord de l'adjectif se fait avec le sujet; ou «avoir un air, une mine, une physionomie, une allure, etc.», et l'accord se fait avec air. Dans certains cas, on a le choix entre les deux interprétations; dans d'autres, non.
- Quand il s'agit de choses, c'est normalement le premier sens: Cette maison a l'air caduque. Ces propositions ont l'air sérieuses. Cette poire a l'air bonne.
Il arrive qu'on puisse les traiter comme des personnes ou comme si l'on disait «un air»: Ces arbres n'ont pas l'air réel. Mais on écrira fort bien: n'ont pas l'air réels (ils n'ont pas l'air d'être réels).
Toutefois, même si avoir l'air se rapporte à une chose, on doit faire l'accord avec air quand il est suivi d'un complément: La ville a l'air tout à la fois animé et désoeuvré d'un dimanche (Tharaud, J. et J.). Aucune rose n'a l'air suspect de l'orchidée (exemples cités dans B.U., no 248, c).
- S'il s'agit de personnes, les deux sens sont plus souvent possibles. On accorde couramment l'adjectif avec le sujet: Cette femme a l'air douce (bien qu'on puisse dire: a l'air doux). Mais Une femme a l'air enceinte.
- Impossible, notons-le, d'accorder avec le sujet si l'expression est trouver à qqn l'air...: Je ne lui avais pas trouvé l'air triste, mais fatigué. Elle était repartie pour Paris (Bazin, H., Le matrimoine).
Il est normal qu'une femme, évoquant l'embarras où elle s'est trouvée, dise: Inventer que c'était mon anniversaire... Je devais avoir l'air fin (Curtis, J.-L., La parade).
- Comme pour les choses, il faut toujours accorder avec air si celui-ci est déterminé par un complément: Elle est à demi allongée sur un canapé (...) elle a l'air fort et tranquille d'un menhir (Green, J., Journal). Les gens avaient l'air stupide que donne la surprise (Ibid.).
- La distinction, même quand elle ne s'impose pas, reste utile pour exprimer des nuances: Elle a l'air faux, mais elle est loyale. Colette a écrit: Si je n'ai pas l'air fatigué, c'est que je ne suis pas très fatiguée. |
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| JujuLeCaribou Diglot Newbie Thailand myonlinefrencht Joined 4717 days ago 28 posts - 44 votes Speaks: French*, English Studies: Portuguese, Thai, German, Dutch
| Message 28 of 37 26 May 2012 at 3:35pm | IP Logged |
@ akkadboy and Spiderkat :
Thanks for these useful informations ! :-)
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| vrb1991 Triglot Newbie FranceRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 4583 days ago 25 posts - 29 votes Speaks: French*, English, German Studies: Polish, Hungarian, Swahili, Czech
| Message 29 of 37 26 May 2012 at 3:39pm | IP Logged |
N'est-ce pas un forum francophone ?
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| Makedha Diglot Newbie United States Joined 5068 days ago 14 posts - 17 votes Speaks: French*, English Studies: Swahili
| Message 30 of 37 26 May 2012 at 3:42pm | IP Logged |
akkadboy wrote:
Just my two cents, but I (almost) never use "quoi" at the end of a
sentence. It sounds really bad to my ears, something like "I cannot be bothered to
explain my ideas clearly so you'll have to figure out yourself". And I would be much
surprised hearing anyone above 60 using it. Although I guess it may depend hugely on
age/region/education/habits/(lack of) stamina at a precise moment, etc. |
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I see where you're coming from, but even though it sounds that way to your ears, that
doesn't mean this is necessarily the message the talking person wants to send. It could
as well mean "I am not explaining this further because it seems obvious enough
already" or "I already explained myself clearly so it seems obvious to me that you
will understand what I mean" for example. I mean people often say that too when they
sum their point up in a short sentence after having made a big explanation.
Finally, I also agree that the meaning and the usage really is a function of a lot of
things. It's one of those things that people who learn a language only really
understand when they reach an advanced level of familiarity with the language and the
culture it belongs to.
akkadboy wrote:
Except that, originally, "intéressant" modifies "air" which is masculine. But it
doesn't mean that "elle a l'air intéressante" is wrong. I think the rule has someting
to do with the subject being animate/inanimate and which nuance you want to add or
not... |
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This actually makes sense. It's something I must admit I had rarely thought about
before. Thank you and Spiderkat. ^^
Edited by Makedha on 26 May 2012 at 3:44pm
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| akkadboy Triglot Senior Member France Joined 5422 days ago 264 posts - 497 votes Speaks: French*, English, Yiddish Studies: Latin, Ancient Egyptian, Welsh
| Message 31 of 37 26 May 2012 at 10:44pm | IP Logged |
Makedha wrote:
I see where you're coming from, but even though it sounds that way to your ears, that
doesn't mean this is necessarily the message the talking person wants to send. It could
as well mean "I am not explaining this further because it seems obvious enough
already" or "I already explained myself clearly so it seems obvious to me that you
will understand what I mean" for example. I mean people often say that too when they
sum their point up in a short sentence after having made a big explanation. |
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Sure, this is only my "reflex/immediate"understanding of "quoi" but I know it's not what all people using "quoi" have in mind. As you pointed out, some use it after a long and detailed explanation, so it's clearly not due to their being lazy or lacking of vocabulary. I hope I did not offend anyone.
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emk Diglot Moderator United States Joined 5546 days ago 2615 posts - 8806 votes Speaks: English*, FrenchB2 Studies: Spanish, Ancient Egyptian Personal Language Map
| Message 32 of 37 27 May 2012 at 3:27am | IP Logged |
Quote:
- La distinction, même quand elle ne s'impose pas, reste utile pour exprimer des
nuances: Elle a l'air faux, mais elle est loyale. Colette a écrit: Si je n'ai pas l'air
fatigué, c'est que je ne suis pas très fatiguée. |
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Merci, Spiderkat ! Ça me semble très logique est élégant.
Ma femme est partie de France pendant six mois en 1996. Quand elle est partie, le mot «
quoi » à la fin des phrases était très rare. Quand elle est revenu, elle me dit que
c'était partout, tout le temps.
Heureusement, cette utilisation de « quoi » ne fait pas partie de mon vocabulaire.
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