|
 |
Who has the worst accent? | ||
Share with:
| ||
 Language Learning Forum : General discussion |  | |
| Solfrid Cristin Heptaglot Winner TAC 2011 & 2012 Senior Member Norway Joined 5157 days ago 4143 posts - 8864 votes  Speaks: Norwegian*, Spanish, Swedish, French, English, German, Italian Studies: Russian | Message 33 of 91 19 October 2011 at 5:59pm | IP Logged | |||||
Then I think I must repeat my wish that we must be allowed to have longer titles, because I see that many times the discussions come as a result of a strange title due to space constraints. Any admins out there who could help? 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| iguanamon Pentaglot Senior Member Virgin Islands Speaks: Ladino Joined 5085 days ago 2237 posts - 6731 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish, Portuguese, Haitian Creole, Creole (French) | Message 34 of 91 19 October 2011 at 6:29pm | IP Logged | |||||
|
@Solfrid Cristin, I have the utmost respect for you and your valuable contributions to this forum. I, too, enjoy reading your posts. @jinx is correct, this poll is unfortunately worded, I've said so, others have said so. So, enough said. I know @leosmith did not intend for it to come across as it does. I am not accusing anyone of racism, just trying to illustrate a point that these kinds of "broad-brush" value judgements can lead to a "slippery slope". These kind of things are unnecessary distractions from discussion of and about language learning.
3 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| Deerhound Triglot Newbie England Joined 4728 days ago 30 posts - 46 votes Speaks: English*, German, Toki Pona Studies: French, Mandarin, Esperanto, Greek, Latin, Welsh | Message 35 of 91 20 October 2011 at 1:38pm | IP Logged | |||||
|
I keep seeing the term 'value judgement'. What do you mean by 'value judgement' - is
that doublespeak for 'opinion'? For example, I don't dislike all American accents, but in my opinion some sound bad and some sound pleasant. (And it's nothing to do with any social perceptions because I don't know what social connotations individual American accents have.) What is wrong with stating such an opinion? 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| iguanamon Pentaglot Senior Member Virgin Islands Speaks: Ladino Joined 5085 days ago 2237 posts - 6731 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish, Portuguese, Haitian Creole, Creole (French) | Message 36 of 91 20 October 2011 at 2:56pm | IP Logged | |||||
|
@Deerhound This is the last I am going to say on this subject. I grew up being told by outsiders who came into the town I in which I grew up that my native American English accent was "bad" and that I needed to change it. I grew up in the American Upper South with a Southern Appalachian accent. This accent is the accent of my family and those of the region as well. I am proud of who I am and my culture. My native accent is part of who I am and represents where I come from. Eventually, I learned to code switch- to speak a more standard form of English around those not from my culture. I still do it today, everyday, here in the Caribbean. With those who are my friends, I will be more natural and use more of my native accent and constructions. I can truly be myself amongst people from my own culture and my family.
My accent isn't "bad" it is merely different. I have seen this everywhere I have lived and I have even lived for a number of years in England where I was exposed to accents from Yorkshire, Northumberland, Cheshire, Cumbria, Manchester and Liverpool. I found common ground with my northern English brethren. They too have judgements placed upon them because of the way they speak their native language in their own country. Here on the island, I hear accents from every island in the Caribbean and all over North America as well. I would never describe any native accent that I've heard in the UK (or anywhere) as "bad", I would describe them as "different". The words "good" and "bad", as regards accents, are subjective. What a sad world this would be if everyone sounded the same. Accents are like musical instruments playing in an orchestra. No one would expect a cello to sound the same as a violin or a trombone to sound the same as an oboe. They are all musical instruments, each with their own unique sound and together they form an orchestra. Do you want everyone to speak RP? @Deerhound, you are certainly entitled to your opinion. I am very glad that you didn't specify which American accents you find "bad". If someone were to describe my accent to me as "bad" I might tell that person in plain Southern Appalachian American accented English where he/she could stick their opinion, and I wouldn't want to do that. Would you go to Liverpool and tell people in a pub or on the street that you think their accent is bad? I wouldn't recommend it. Well, telling Americans that you find some of their accents are bad might elicit a rather strong response on this forum. There are many Americans here who might hold a different opinion. I can accept that you may dislike my accent but not that it is "bad" even if that is your opinion. That's why this thread upsets me because having people talk about "bad" accents is fighting words. Everyone has an opinion and everyone is entitled to their opinion. When we decide to express our opinion and judge, we must be prepared to accept the acrimony that may ensue when others hold very different opinions. Acrimony has no place on this wonderful and useful forum. In this forum we are here to discuss aspects of language learning. We don't talk about politics, religion and race because those subjects are contentious and controversial and distract from the forum's purpose. Talking about "bad" accents in native languages, and as a generalization of people from foreign cultures speaking English- for example, say Asians speaking English- crosses the line in my opinion. I have no problem with someone saying that they find an accent unintelligible or difficult to comprehend, but when they say that a person who represents a whole culture of people has a "bad" native accent just because it's different, I have a problem with that. "Bad" accents in second languages among language learners- well, we all know our own levels and we all would love to have any accent that could pass for native. We all struggle as adult second language learners with interference from our native tongues everyday as we try to move our second language accent closer to the native goal. I have said my piece and will no longer participate in this thread. Finis. Edited by iguanamon on 20 October 2011 at 4:01pm 4 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| Remster Diglot Senior Member Netherlands Joined 4628 days ago 120 posts - 134 votes Speaks: Dutch*, English Studies: German, French | Message 37 of 91 20 October 2011 at 3:45pm | IP Logged | |||||
|
I too think the word ''worst'' has been poorly chosen, but it can happen to everyone.
I voted for Asia, not so much because I think their accents are horrible, but they have the most trouble pronouncing English, atleast in my opinion. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| leosmith Senior Member United States Joined 6373 days ago 2365 posts - 3804 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Tagalog | Message 38 of 91 20 October 2011 at 4:40pm | IP Logged | |||||
At least I didn't get called a nazi. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| CareBear Hexaglot Newbie Belgium Joined 4608 days ago 3 posts - 3 votes Speaks: English, Dutch, Flemish*, French, Portuguese, German Studies: Norwegian, Indonesian, Persian | Message 39 of 91 20 October 2011 at 9:02pm | IP Logged | |||||
|
I think speakers of the mainland Southeast Asian languages (with the exception of
Burmese) have the strongest accents. Nothing that a good education can't sure though. I've met Thai and Vietnamese professionals with excellent neutral accents. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| kanewai Triglot Senior Member United States justpaste.it/kanewai Joined 4712 days ago 1386 posts - 3054 votes Speaks: English*, French, Marshallese Studies: Italian, Spanish | Message 40 of 91 20 October 2011 at 10:25pm | IP Logged | |||||
|
It's an interesting topic, just stated poorly.
Some groups do pick up English better than others. In Jordan I was amazed at the number of Bedouin I met who spoke English with almost no accent, yet who had never formally studied the language. And here at home I have numerous Chinese coworkers who've lived here 20 years, even gotten graduate degrees, and are still barely intelligible. I think this is fascinating. The best explanation I heard was that Arabic contains all the sounds, stresses, and intonations we have in English, and then some. There's nothing "exotic" to learn going from Arabic to English. Chinese, on the other hand, does not use stress, rhythm, or intonation the same way English does, and so there are a lot more hurdles to overcome going from Chinese to English. 2 persons have voted this message useful |
|  | 
Printable version
|
| Copyright 2024 FX Micheloud - All rights reserved No part of this website may be copied by any means without my written authorization. |
