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Disappointed about English vocab test | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : General discussion |  | |
| QiuJP Triglot Senior Member Singapore Joined 5645 days ago 428 posts - 597 votes  Speaks: Mandarin*, EnglishC2, French Studies: Czech, GermanB1, Russian, Japanese | Message 17 of 69 15 October 2011 at 7:57pm | IP Logged | |||||
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Frankly speaking, I felt that I do not have a native language. Both my English and
Chinese vocabulary are low when compared to a native living in the US or in China. I also do not have a standard accent, so much so that when I was in Beijing, people knew I am a foreigner, despite looking similar to them. On the other hand, I am considered to one of the more fluent speaker here. I rarely mix my languages, rarely make grammatical mistakes and is able to write a sound essay in both languages. However, I needed time to formulate my thoughts because things do not come naturally to me. There are times I struggled to spell or remember a character because I am not familiar with the words. I wish my size of vocabulary is larger. My English has been stagnated for many years even I learned it as though it is my native language(L1). I have strong dislike to English literature, because the English literature teacher I had in school not only did not help me, but also called my work a pile of sh*t in front of the class(I was a poor student, but should you shame me like that?). For my Chinese, my reading is very slow. Often, I need a longer time to understand what is going on. I did not learn Classical Chinese unlike my friends in China. Hence, I struggled when a book contains sayings based on Classical Chinese. Many great literature works are also written in Classical Chinese. Therefore, one can say that I have no literacy in Chinese. I also have problem reading specialized text in Chinese, such as a scientific text, a book about computer architecture or philosophical text. I am more familiar with their English counterparts, as I keep in touch with them though the subjects taught in English. I found it not right: Chinese is my native language yet I struggle to read most books in Chinese? I seriously need to reconsider my language studies. I felt unsecure that I do not really have a native language. I do, however, want to learn languages (not just Chinese and English) to fluent level. I do not know, if it is possible to make a 3rd language to have a native standard, which means better than my current standard of English and Chinese, when I have no L1. Edited by QiuJP on 15 October 2011 at 8:32pm 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| QiuJP Triglot Senior Member Singapore Joined 5645 days ago 428 posts - 597 votes Speaks: Mandarin*, EnglishC2, French Studies: Czech, GermanB1, Russian, Japanese | Message 18 of 69 15 October 2011 at 7:57pm | IP Logged | |||||
I will test myself when I am more prepared. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| QiuJP Triglot Senior Member Singapore Joined 5645 days ago 428 posts - 597 votes Speaks: Mandarin*, EnglishC2, French Studies: Czech, GermanB1, Russian, Japanese | Message 19 of 69 15 October 2011 at 8:07pm | IP Logged | |||||
Hi, thank you for your response. But I have to clarify that it is not my parents who make me learn English, the most spread language. It is the government that is forcing me to learn English and in a rather nasty way. If one fails English in school, he cannot be enrolled in a good school and many opportunities are shut to him. On the other hand, people who failed their Chinese can be enrolled by the local university as long as they pass their English. You can see how unfair the system is, especially when my parents speak no English. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| QiuJP Triglot Senior Member Singapore Joined 5645 days ago 428 posts - 597 votes Speaks: Mandarin*, EnglishC2, French Studies: Czech, GermanB1, Russian, Japanese | Message 20 of 69 15 October 2011 at 8:15pm | IP Logged | |||||
English is an official language in Singapore. The parliament conducts its debate mostly in English. The working language of government administration, banks, judicial system, businesses and medium of education is English, even though we have 4 official languages. Hence, Singapore definitely is a English speaking country, but she is a terrible one. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| lichtrausch Triglot Senior Member United States Joined 5750 days ago 525 posts - 1072 votes Speaks: English*, German, Japanese Studies: Korean, Mandarin | Message 21 of 69 15 October 2011 at 8:23pm | IP Logged | |||||
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Look on the bright side. You have a very very strong foundation (even if not perfect) in both the most important Western language and the most important Asian language. A fantastic base point from which to launch anyone's language studies.
If you dislike English literature, I wouldn't recommend forcing it on yourself. It seems like you have a strong interest in Chinese literature, so put some effort into that. Sooner rather than later your Mandarin should reach native level in the strictest sense, or if not that, then a level only ever so slightly beneath it. 3 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| montmorency Diglot Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 4618 days ago 2371 posts - 3676 votes Speaks: English*, German Studies: Danish, Welsh | Message 22 of 69 16 October 2011 at 2:40am | IP Logged | |||||
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@QiuJP: If I remember Prof. Arguelles video about size of vocabulary and reading
comprehension, 9200 isn't that bad a score. Although you say you don't like English Literature because of what happened, I think you have to try to put that behind you. It sounds like you do need to read more English books, whether it is actually called "literature" or not. You may remember Prof. Arguelles 98% "rule". You need to try to find material of which you know about 98% of the vocabulary already, and then, just by reading , you can expand your vocabulary just by learning words in context, and use of a dictionary should help even more. And as I say, it doesn't have to be "literature". It has to be something that gets your interest. So for me, it might be something like the Sherlock Holmes stories of Conan Doyle. Not great literature, but not that bad, either, and a bit of an intellectual puzzle. Or in similar vein "The Moonstone", or "The Woman in White" by Wilkie Collins. Or slightly more up to date, it could be something by George Orwell, either fictional or some of his essays. If you google "George Orwell essays" you should find some he wrote for the newspapers in the post-war years. These are some of the clearest English examples I have ever read, and quite entertaining. Or maybe the "Father Brown" detective stories, by G.K.Chesterton. or the spy stories of Somerset Maugham, or the more modern ones by John le Carré or Len Deighton. Or for light relief, J.K.Jerome, or the (usually funny) books by Evelyn Waugh. Some of the above you can find on www.gutenberg.org and some are also in audiobook format on librivox.org. Some other thoughts: "The Prisoner of Zenda" by Anthony Hope "The Riddle of the Sands" by Erskine Childers. "Rogue Male" by Geoffrey Household "The Thirty Nine Steps" by John Buchan Almost anything by R.L. Stevenson, and quite a few by Sir Walter Scott are worth reading. American, and full of detective and old-fashioned gangster slang, but well-written: the Philip Marlowe novels of Raymond Chandler. Similarly, Dashiell Hammett, "The Maltese Falcon" and other books. Sometimes considered a children's book, but still a great book IMO: "Moonfleet" by J. Meade Falkner. Similarly: "The Coral Island" by R.M.Ballantyne. (A modern, dystopian version: "Lord of the Flies" by William Golding). And much more. If you want something non-fictional, non-literary, informative, and fairly intelligent, you could check out the "New Scientist" magazine. Older articles are available online. To be honest, even if it's only Harry Potter, Dan Brown, and "airport books", the main thing I think is to be reading, and if you find what you are reading not challenging or interesting enough, put it down and find something else. I don't know anything about Mandarin, so no point in commenting on that. Edited by montmorency on 16 October 2011 at 2:41am 4 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| QiuJP Triglot Senior Member Singapore Joined 5645 days ago 428 posts - 597 votes Speaks: Mandarin*, EnglishC2, French Studies: Czech, GermanB1, Russian, Japanese | Message 23 of 69 16 October 2011 at 6:16am | IP Logged | |||||
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Thanks for the advice. I have already started to read non-friction books in some of my
languages: English, Chinese, French, Russian and German. For English, Chinese and French, I can understand 98% of the text and for Russian and German, reading is for exposure of the language. I agree that without 98% understanding of the vocabulary reading is difficult, but Russian is the language that I want to overtake English as my L1. My target for Russian is vocabulary of 20000 word families, high fluency and the ability to buff native Russian that I am a minority living in Siberia. Edited by QiuJP on 16 October 2011 at 6:22am 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| mrwarper Diglot Winner TAC 2012 Senior Member Spain forum_posts.asp?TID=Registered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5016 days ago 1493 posts - 2500 votes Speaks: Spanish*, EnglishC2 Studies: German, Russian, Japanese | Message 24 of 69 18 October 2011 at 7:13pm | IP Logged | |||||
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I wouldn't worry too much about tests.
I just scored 20,200+ at http://my.vocabularysize.com/, while http://testyourvocab.com/ estimates 27,500. The first one has some technical glitches, but even so I took the other one after it, so my score should be lower (due to exhaustion) or just a bit higher (if the first one is flawed), not a whole 33% better. Maybe I need some warm up until I can focus on this kind of things, maybe the tests are not really a good measure of your proficiency (even if they're the best one available). As others have said, just keep on reading stuff you like, as long as it's not just for kids ;) P.S. A useful piece of advice from my Linear Algebra teacher: don't mistake your dislike for a teacher for dislike for a subject :) Edited by mrwarper on 18 October 2011 at 7:14pm 2 persons have voted this message useful |
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