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Panglot and Panglotism: new type of polyg

 Language Learning Forum : Polyglots Post Reply
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lingoleng
Senior Member
Germany
Joined 3486 days ago

605 posts - 1290 votes 

 
 Message 17 of 67
29 October 2011 at 10:28pm | IP Logged 
futurianus wrote:
lingoleng wrote:
futurianus wrote:

... around Latin based languages (Romantic, Germanic and Slavic)...

Interesting news, b.t.w. ...

Simplification(Greco-Latin vocabulary base), as Madarin--->Japanese, despite grammatical differences.

well, could be the aliens don't know any better and don't have a sense for annoying details. Probably a useful attitude when one wants to become a real omigloot like Cesare, whose name is Latin based, indeed.
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futurianus
Senior Member
Korea, South
starlightonclou
Joined 3197 days ago

125 posts - 234 votes 
Speaks: Korean*

 
 Message 18 of 67
30 October 2011 at 7:20pm | IP Logged 
Definitions of Terminologies Related to Panglotism


Translingual: One who has acuired fluency in two or more language groups.
Monotranslingual, Mono-translingual, Unitranslingual, Uni-translingual: One who has acuired fluency in one language groups.
Bitranslingual, Bi-translingual: One who has acuired fluency in two language groups.
Tritranslingual, Tri-translingual: One who has acuired fluency in three language groups.
Tetratranslingual, Tetra-translingual: One who has acuired fluency in four language groups.
Pentatranslingual, Penta-translingual: One who has acuired fluency in five language groups.
Polytranslingual, Poly-translingual: One who has acuired fluency in four or more language groups.
Globalglot: a polytranslingual who has acuired fluency in five or more language groups, at least one each from European, Far Eastern, Indic, Arabic and Turkic(or any one from other groupings in Southeast Asia, Africa, Near East, etc) groups.
Panglot: a globalglot who has acquired working abilities in one or more languages within each of the language groupings, with the total number of languages being at least 20 or above.(more explanation needed)



Edited by futurianus on 30 October 2011 at 10:27pm

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futurianus
Senior Member
Korea, South
starlightonclou
Joined 3197 days ago

125 posts - 234 votes 
Speaks: Korean*

 
 Message 19 of 67
30 October 2011 at 9:45pm | IP Logged 
Clarification: Unity of European Languages in Common Greco-Latin Vocabulary Base


Premise: Romance, Germanic and Slavic languages are all Greco-Latin vocabulary based and belong to one European Language group despite their grammatically differences.

Comment 1: I am aware of the differences among them, even as I myself have studied languages belonging to each of those three groups. I have a great respect for those who overcame those differences and have mastered languages in other groups, as it requires tremendous amount of effort and perseverance to do so. For the purpose of translingualism, however, we will treat all three of them as belonging to just one larger group, mainly due to the transferability of significant amount of vocabularies among them.

Comment 2: Just in case someone who is a biginner in Russian argues otherwise, I would advice one to keep on studying till one gets to the intermediate level or take a time to read through a news article in Russian. At beginning level, this does not show much and one may feel that Russian is entirely different from other European languages even in vocabulary, but as one learns the expressions for more complicated thoughts and concepts, one will find a great amount of Greco-Latin based vocabularies.

Comment 3: 'Latin based' means 'Greco-Latin vocabulary based' in my writings.


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futurianus
Senior Member
Korea, South
starlightonclou
Joined 3197 days ago

125 posts - 234 votes 
Speaks: Korean*

 
 Message 20 of 67
30 October 2011 at 10:14pm | IP Logged 
Before writing the follow-up story, let me share some observations and thoughts.

-------------

Some Observations and Thoughts #1: Trend towards Bi-translingualim among Hyperglots
 

I think that most of the language enthusiasts would like to learn languages in other language families and those who had already experienced attaining a working level of ability in another language group would more likely to go on learning languages from some other language groups successfully, should the opportunities and inspirations be given.

It seems that the trend nowadays is on learning the Far Eastern languages: Mandarin, Japanese and Korean. Mandarin, especially, seems to be getting a tremendous attention and its popularity seems ever increasing nowadays. Arabic, Hindic, Turkic languages do not seem to receive as much attention, despite the great value and significance that they have within our world.


Among the students of the Far Eastern languages, I see two types:
type 1. those who have spent many years in the Far East, studying or working,
type 2. those who did not have an opportunity to live in the Far East for at least a year, but who are studying those languages back home.
 
It is usually the type 1 who have succeeded in acquiring fluency in one or more Far Eastern languages, while about 93% of the type 2 could not achieve fluency even after many years of effort.
--Type 1, due to having invested enormous time and energy for entirely different Far Eastern language(s), usually have not acquired fluency in more than 4 European languages and thus majority of them do not have the status of 'hyperglot'.
--Among Type 2 are those who have acquired fluency in more than 4 European languages and the majority of 'hyperglots' belongs here. They also have tried hard to learn languages outside of Europe, but about 93% have not achieved fluency in them thus far.
--One can postulate a trade-off of a Far Eastern language with several European languages, especially for the Western learners. There is a need for new terminologies descriptive of new criteria for evaluating the linguistic abilities of language learners in a more balanced way in our ever growing polyglot communities.
 

I prognosticate that some of the European languages oriented hyperglots will sooner or later have their breakthroughs and finally become bitranslinguals. I see those breakthroughs mainly in the Far Eastern languages and Turkic language groups. One of the most difficult hurdles to overcome in other language groups mentioned above is their writing systems which are very different from the European ones. Many of Turkic languages have adopted a romanized or Cyrillic writing system, making them much more accessible and easier to learn, though vocabulary acquisition will have to start from a scratch and will take much time and effort to build up. Mandarin, of course, has quickly become the dream language of the world, although it is also quickly becoming the fearful gigantic rock that is shipwrecking the confidence of thousands of polyglots, hyperglots and super hyperglots. When some of the hyperglots and super hyperglots finally get over the difficult process and learn a language from the other language groups, there will be more polyglots trying to follow suit. Through these breakthroughs, the hyperglots would begin to enter into bi-translingualism and inspire many other polyglots to do the same.
 




Edited by futurianus on 31 October 2011 at 3:43pm

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futurianus
Senior Member
Korea, South
starlightonclou
Joined 3197 days ago

125 posts - 234 votes 
Speaks: Korean*

 
 Message 21 of 67
30 October 2011 at 11:41pm | IP Logged 
Some Observations and Thoughts #2: Appellations and 'Foreign Language Learning'

I believe many of us do share common passion or need to learn other languages, and most of those who have become language enthusiasts do harbor a desire and a dream of learning languages from different groupings. I have felt for quite sometime that the terminologies of polyglot, hyperglot and super hyperglot, though useful and correct appellations, need to be further finely defined and supplemented in a way that will help the language learners to have a better and wider understanding of this whole enterprise called 'foreign language learning'.

monotranslingual hyperglot
tritranslingual polyglot
bitranslingual hyperglot
globalglot
panglot
...
...


I am not crusading to change the mindset and culture of people--I simply do not have the time and energy or much motivation to do so, and I also think that they are quite great even as they are. I, however, feel that it is high time to use some other terminologies to emphatically highlight and clarify the issues.



Edited by futurianus on 30 October 2011 at 11:50pm

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futurianus
Senior Member
Korea, South
starlightonclou
Joined 3197 days ago

125 posts - 234 votes 
Speaks: Korean*

 
 Message 22 of 67
30 October 2011 at 11:42pm | IP Logged 

Some Observations and Thoughts #3: Search for Translinguals

I do have a great respect for all the language enthusiasts, polyglots and hyperglots here and have quite enjoyed and benefited from reading their great posts.

However, one of the things that I noticed after coming here is the tremendous difficulties, frustrations and confusions of the translingual learners, especially for that of Mandarin and the lack of proper guidance for them.

I searched at the beginning with much interest for people who have achieved fluency in four or five different language groups, but could not find any except an ex-forum member called ProfArguelles who seems to have much qualifications to discuss matters concerning learning languages outside of European group, but he does not seem to be around here anymore. Some superpolyglots with more global orientation seemed to have come here but somehow did not stay around for long. Now it seems that we have only monotranslingual or unitranslingual hyperglots and super hyperglots.

It would help this forum if people like ProfArguelles would more actively participate in the discussions, especially on more globalized language learning issues and strategies.


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Iversen
Super Polyglot
Moderator
Denmark
berejst.dk
Joined 4891 days ago

9078 posts - 16470 votes 
Speaks: Danish*, French, English, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, Swedish, Esperanto, Romanian, Catalan
Studies: Afrikaans, Greek, Norwegian, Russian, Serbian, Icelandic, Latin, Irish, Lowland Scots, Indonesian, Polish, Croatian
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 Message 23 of 67
31 October 2011 at 12:38am | IP Logged 
Laoshu5050 would also be a relevant representative of this kind of omnivorous language learning.

I'm not too interested in aliens, so let's cut it down to one central question: how much more time and effort do you need to learn two unrelated languages compared to two related languages if you want to learn them to comparable levels?. This caveat is necessary because a prospective 'panglot' might compensate for the added burden of vocabulary learning and the higher level of exotic idiomaticity by setting a lower target level.

Besides learning languages outside your own geographical and cultural sphere may be more difficult because you have less exposure to those languages. It would be interesting to know whether it actually is that much more difficult to learn unrelated languages than related ones if you have the same possiilites to watch TV and speak to people and read books in those languages. I can't judge that for myself because I get massive exposure to Germanic and a reasonable amount of exposure to Romance languages, but beyond that the horizon is bleak. But I do feel that my Russian and Greek would be much better if I had TV channels in those languages - if I want to listen to Greek now it means that I will have to sit before my computer and use it specifically for that purpose, whereas I can listen to Spanish or German from my TV any time I want.

So the jury is out on the amount of extra time and effort you have to invest in learning unrelated languages instead of related languages.

There is another angle on the problem: do you learn languages as separate entities, or do you use all your previous languages as a reservoir for comparisons and associations when you start learning a new one? I definitely belong in the latter category which is one good reason for basically sticking to one language group. The one counter example in my repertoire to that seems however to indicate that formal linguistic relatedness isn't a good indicator: I don't find Bahasa Indonesia particularly exotic - I can recognize much from English grammar in its free use of word types and sparse morphology. In contrast languages like Latin, Russian, Greek and (not least) Irish might actually be conceived as more exotic than Bahasa even though they all are Indoeuropean languages.


Edited by Iversen on 31 October 2011 at 12:42am

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Ari
Heptaglot
Senior Member
Norway
Joined 4770 days ago

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Speaks: Swedish*, English, French, Spanish, Portuguese, Mandarin, Cantonese
Studies: Czech, Latin, German

 
 Message 24 of 67
31 October 2011 at 7:04am | IP Logged 
So hey, is the important thing the different language groups or global languages? At first I thought this thread was about learning the big global languages and get a more global perspective on human culture, but now it seems it's more specifically about language families and getting a larger perspective on human language.

These are very different things, of course, since Indoeuropean languages are so widespread. If you want a good global perspective on culture, you'd want to learn Spanish for South America and French for French Africa, even though these are Indo-European.

Edited by Ari on 31 October 2011 at 7:05am



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