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Importance of frequent vs rarer words? | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Learning Techniques, Methods & Strategies |  | |
| chaotic_thought Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 3332 days ago 129 posts - 274 votes  Speaks: English*, German Studies: Dutch, French | Message 57 of 81 12 June 2015 at 2:52pm | IP Logged | |||||
If you want to force someone to codeswitch back, you can say a few things to him in sloppy English or slang or something, and then the instant he can't understand, translate again to French. This will make him unconsciuosly feel inadequate. Another thing I like to do, if I want to speak to someone in the national language, but they seem to be saying something in English, I'll just imagine that people are actually speaking a poorly-enunciated version of their national language. Are they really speaking English? I couldn't quite tell; maybe it's just a strange dialect of German or Dutch? Ultimately it doesn't matter much as long as they understand you. And they will understand you as long as they have an incentive to do so (e.g. you are a customer). 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| garyb Triglot Senior Member ScotlandRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 4997 days ago 1468 posts - 2413 votes Speaks: English*, Italian, French Studies: Spanish | Message 58 of 81 12 June 2015 at 3:22pm | IP Logged | |||||
Yep, that's why I listed confidence as one factor of several. Maybe the threshold is different, you have to appear extremely confident to the French, while with the Germans just the fact that you're attempting the language conveys enough confidence. Just speculating of course. Being with other foreigners is often a nail in the coffin in my experience, although again it depends on the place and the people.
I like this strategy and have done similar things in the past. People with that attitude deserve it. It's the one time that having a difficult accent in English is an advantage, and I can go extra-Scottish to make things nice and hard for them. With the French I've even had success with a more direct approach of asking them why they aren't taking me seriously, although I'd only recommend that one for social situations and for when you're quite confident in your ability to understand and speak. Edited by garyb on 12 June 2015 at 3:26pm 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| tastyonions Triglot Senior Member United States goo.gl/UIdChYRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 4455 days ago 1044 posts - 1823 votes Speaks: English*, French, Spanish Studies: Italian | Message 59 of 81 12 June 2015 at 4:42pm | IP Logged | |||||
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The fact that people with a good French level apparently get switched on all the time in France while others have no problem staying in French in Montreal where the English level is generally miles ahead of that in France is kind of puzzling. But then these are all just anecdotes...are you guys hanging out with a bunch of French people who use English on the job every day or lived in the UK a few years? :-) Edited by tastyonions on 12 June 2015 at 4:43pm 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| tarvos Super Polyglot Winner TAC 2012 Senior Member China likeapolyglot.wordpr Joined 4497 days ago 5310 posts - 9399 votes Speaks: Dutch*, English, Swedish, French, Russian, German, Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Afrikaans Studies: Greek, Modern Hebrew, Spanish, Portuguese, Czech, Korean, Esperanto, Finnish | Message 60 of 81 12 June 2015 at 4:46pm | IP Logged | |||||
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It puzzles me too. I never ever have problems. Maybe you're doing something wrong with
your body language or behaviour or style of dress. I dunno. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| garyb Triglot Senior Member ScotlandRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 4997 days ago 1468 posts - 2413 votes Speaks: English*, Italian, French Studies: Spanish | Message 61 of 81 12 June 2015 at 5:56pm | IP Logged | |||||
It's hard to compare France to Montreal. I've not been to Montreal but several people have told me that French speakers there have a very positive attitude towards learners: perhaps because of the linguistic pride and politics they're happy to see people learning it. Plus there's the whole bilingual city dynamic with its own rules (those who're interested could dig out some of emk's and others' posts on the subject... I'm aware that this thread is already going more and more off topic). As I've said before, switching almost never happens to me in "polite" interactions like customer service or asking directions; it's usually when socialising. I indeed think that an element of it is that the French people I've met socially have been types who travel a lot and/or have studied/worked abroad, so are comfortable using English (though not necessarily very good at it). Still, I've also met plenty Spanish and Italian people in similar situations who were happy to speak their language with me, and my Spanish is very basic! Too many variables to tell what's making the difference, as I say. I considered that Tarvos isn't a native English speaker, but then neither is Cavesa. I certainly wouldn't rule out problems with body language etc. on my part. 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| Cavesa Triglot Senior Member Czech Republic Joined 4799 days ago 3277 posts - 6779 votes Speaks: Czech*, FrenchC2, EnglishC1 Studies: Spanish, German, Italian | Message 62 of 81 12 June 2015 at 6:59pm | IP Logged | |||||
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Sure, body language could be a problem but I highly doubt the difference in my body language when speaking each of my languages would be that enormous.
Being with other foreigners is bad but sometimes inevitable. But it really makes me angry when I'm speaking with my family in an obviously non-English language, my family obviously doesn't understand either English or French, I obviously speak and understand French, yet the native switches to really bad English instead. And keeps insisting on it after I ask they speak French. I cannot as well find out how would my body language appear that different to various members of the same group. One guy I had the problem with just ignored all the conversation going on and treated me as if I was an idiot. His intentions were kind, he was a nice guy, but I felt offended every time he translated something I understood and even responded to. Some of the speakers switch because they automatically assume I'm gonna be bad and use them as language teachers. A French girl I met last summer surely expected that. She kept refusing to speak the language for really long time, argumenting that she hadn't come to Spain to speak French. Well, she couldn't speak Spanish nearly at all, so she went to Spain to practice English with other non-natives? Really, those arguments were making no sense at all. I've met people who were speaking with me for a while, in French, without any trouble until the question "Where are you from?" came up :-( I don't know about Quebec, I've never been there so far and I've met only one or two people from there so far. Sure, there is always a lot to improve on the body language and so on. But I'm afraid the problem with the French can't be solved just like that. I think many of them are just arrogant or too brainwashed with stereotypes of foreigners (just like we are being under constant repetitions of the stupid stereotypes about them). Tarvos, what kind of dress is gonna help? :-) The only way that appears to be consistently working: 1.Being alone. Getting rid of anyone else. 2.Starting in French and hoping the questions where I am from doesn't come up too soon. 3.Using all the non-verbal communication "tricks" I've learnt over the years when needed. 4.Never showing any doubt. Certainly not asking directly for vocabulary. Replacing a word less elegantly is ok (and necessary at times) but a question like "how do you say that" or "what was the word you've just said" tend to be one way ticket to English. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| luke Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 6995 days ago 3133 posts - 4351 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish Studies: Esperanto, French | Message 63 of 81 12 June 2015 at 7:26pm | IP Logged | |||||
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English pronunciation can be challenging for French speakers. French pronunciation isn't easy to do well either.
Can't both sides just pretend the other is speaking their target language? You: Pouvez-vous m'aider ? Je veux prendre le train. Il est près d'ici, mais où est-il ? Frenchman: The metro is (points). You: Merci beaucoup, monsieur. Vous avez une très belle langue. Je suis flatté que vous me la parlez. Frenchman: No problem. Later, the Frenchman asks himself, "Pensait-elle vraiment que je répondais en français ?" Edited by luke on 12 June 2015 at 7:34pm 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| tastyonions Triglot Senior Member United States goo.gl/UIdChYRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 4455 days ago 1044 posts - 1823 votes Speaks: English*, French, Spanish Studies: Italian | Message 64 of 81 12 June 2015 at 7:58pm | IP Logged | |||||
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I'm not averse to the idea of simply continuing in the language if it makes any kind of sense, e.g. if everyone else in the group is speaking it except for this one doofus who has for some reason decided I need everything translated in English even though I am participating just fine.
We have some people at my work who speak French better than they speak English, but for me to start playing interpreter in a group conversation when they get along in English very well would simply be ridiculous and also kind of insulting. Edited by tastyonions on 12 June 2015 at 7:59pm 2 persons have voted this message useful |
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