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Serpent’s log

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Serpent
Octoglot
Senior Member
Russian Federation
serpent-849.livejour
Joined 5444 days ago

9753 posts - 15778 votes 
4 sounds
Speaks: Russian*, English, FinnishC1, Latin, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese
Studies: Danish, Romanian, Polish, Belarusian, Ukrainian, Croatian, Slovenian, Catalan, Czech, Galician, Dutch, Swedish

 
 Message 25 of 119
21 July 2007 at 6:33am | IP Logged 
Yeah. Finally the exams are over. Yesterday i got back to Esperanto, which I hadn't touched at all for a week. I finished Vojaĝu kun Zam and also did the transparent language test, here are the results of the latter:
You scored 88 % overall.

PART I: Fill in the Blank

You scored 80 % on this section.

PART II: Word Translation

You scored 60 % on this section.

PART III. Pick the Esperanto Translation

Congratulations! You had a perfect score!

PART IV: Learn Your Numbers!

Congratulations! You had a perfect score!

PART V. Match the English Translation

Congratulations! You had a perfect score!


If it hadn't been a multiple choice test, I think I would    be at least uncertain about many questions, especially for numbers:/

The last lessons of Vojaĝu kun Zam introduce words like kiu, kiam, kial etc... i don't really find this system particularly logical, the one in Finnish is so much better :D Guess I'll just learn that table before starting some other course.
A positive note - my comprehension of Esperanto has become much better.
1 person has voted this message useful



Sprachprofi
Nonaglot
Senior Member
Germany
learnlangs.comRegistered users can see my Skype Name
Joined 5317 days ago

2608 posts - 4866 votes 
Speaks: German*, English, French, Esperanto, Greek, Mandarin, Latin, Dutch, Italian
Studies: Spanish, Arabic (Written), Swahili, Indonesian, Japanese, Modern Hebrew, Portuguese

 
 Message 26 of 119
21 July 2007 at 7:59am | IP Logged 
Good job!

How does the Finnish system work? I can't imagine anything more logical or easy to learn than the Esperanto tabelvortoj, provided you learn just the first letter and possible endings and then internalise the actual words through practise.
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Serpent
Octoglot
Senior Member
Russian Federation
serpent-849.livejour
Joined 5444 days ago

9753 posts - 15778 votes 
4 sounds
Speaks: Russian*, English, FinnishC1, Latin, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese
Studies: Danish, Romanian, Polish, Belarusian, Ukrainian, Croatian, Slovenian, Catalan, Czech, Galician, Dutch, Swedish

 
 Message 27 of 119
21 July 2007 at 11:49am | IP Logged 
Well as you probably know in Finnish things like in, into, from, to etc are shown by special cases, and you just add the endings to mi-, the stem of the word mikä (what?) to form question words like where? (state and direction) where from? (missä? mihin? mistä?) the same endings can be added to the word joka 'which', ie if the words are not question pronouns, but relative pronouns, you get jossa, johon, josta... Although if I knew the prepositions in Esperanto better I guess I'd have nothing to complain about..it just feels stupid to learn both the question words and the prepositions when you can just learn one ending :D
Also, in Finnish you can often answer questions using the word se 'this, it' in the same case (and with the same postposition if necessary) as the question words, eg miksi - siksi 'why - because', mitä varten - sitä varten 'what for - in order to', while I don't quite understand if tial also means because, at least in the lessons the word ĉar is used instead :/

BTW that learning style test seems to be truer than I thought. I thought I was more an active learner than a reflective one, although the test showed the opposite, but when preparing for yesterday's exam on Maths (I got 86 out of 100! very good for me, I would be quite happy with 60 points), I mostly analized the problems that are solved in the book, instead of solving more of them myself. I guess the way one learns things he isn't extremely eager to learn can show their preferences better :) really, the beginning of my first Finnish textbook is boring to death, but I went through it happily because I was (and still am, of course) so motivated :)
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Serpent
Octoglot
Senior Member
Russian Federation
serpent-849.livejour
Joined 5444 days ago

9753 posts - 15778 votes 
4 sounds
Speaks: Russian*, English, FinnishC1, Latin, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese
Studies: Danish, Romanian, Polish, Belarusian, Ukrainian, Croatian, Slovenian, Catalan, Czech, Galician, Dutch, Swedish

 
 Message 28 of 119
22 July 2007 at 1:24am | IP Logged 
Is there an explanation in English anywhere about when should one use kio and kiu? I've only found one in Esperanto....
I'm getting frustrated :/ It feels so stupid to struggle with something that is supposed to be easy :(
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Sprachprofi
Nonaglot
Senior Member
Germany
learnlangs.comRegistered users can see my Skype Name
Joined 5317 days ago

2608 posts - 4866 votes 
Speaks: German*, English, French, Esperanto, Greek, Mandarin, Latin, Dutch, Italian
Studies: Spanish, Arabic (Written), Swahili, Indonesian, Japanese, Modern Hebrew, Portuguese

 
 Message 29 of 119
22 July 2007 at 1:29am | IP Logged 
Ki-o (what-thing) is the question word "what?"
Ki-u (what-person) is the question word "who?". Together with a noun it means "which?", e. g. "kiu libro estas via?"(which book is yours?).

Kiu is also used as a relative pronoun (for people AND things).

Kio is unchangeable, but kiu has to take -j or -n just like a noun whenever necessary.
1 person has voted this message useful



Serpent
Octoglot
Senior Member
Russian Federation
serpent-849.livejour
Joined 5444 days ago

9753 posts - 15778 votes 
4 sounds
Speaks: Russian*, English, FinnishC1, Latin, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese
Studies: Danish, Romanian, Polish, Belarusian, Ukrainian, Croatian, Slovenian, Catalan, Czech, Galician, Dutch, Swedish

 
 Message 30 of 119
22 July 2007 at 12:23pm | IP Logged 
Thank you so much! It's actually so easy :D that's why I didn't like that table at first..it only has translations :/
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Sprachprofi
Nonaglot
Senior Member
Germany
learnlangs.comRegistered users can see my Skype Name
Joined 5317 days ago

2608 posts - 4866 votes 
Speaks: German*, English, French, Esperanto, Greek, Mandarin, Latin, Dutch, Italian
Studies: Spanish, Arabic (Written), Swahili, Indonesian, Japanese, Modern Hebrew, Portuguese

 
 Message 31 of 119
22 July 2007 at 4:11pm | IP Logged 
Yeah they take some getting used to, but they are the most logical and easy-to-learn system for those words I have seen yet. And I'm not a fan of cases ;-) I think it's especially helpful for rarely-used words - I'm having trouble even remembering common words like "everywhere" in French, since the tabelvortoj are almost all 100% different in French.

Here's a list of beginnings and endings with their meme translations:

ki-   = "what?", question
ti-   = "that", demonstrative
i-    = "some", indefinite
cxi- = "every"
neni- = "no"

-u = person (with -n or -j as usual)
-o = thing (with -n for Accusative, no -j)
-a = kind (with -n or -j as usual)
-es = owner
-e = place (and -en = direction)
-am = time
-al = reason
-el = way, -how
-om = quantity

Example sentences for practise, try to understand the tabelvortoj here:
1. Kies libro estas tio?
2. Mi ne sxatas tiajn librojn.
3. Cxiam vi lasas viajn aferojn cxie.
4. Donu al mi iom da pano, mi petas.
5. Sxi neniel rilatas al li.
6. Li ial ne sxatas la studadon.
7. Li neniam studas por la ekzamenoj, tial li versxajne ne sukcesos.
8. Kien vi iras? - Nenien, mi nur vagas.

Edited by Sprachprofi on 22 July 2007 at 4:14pm

1 person has voted this message useful



Serpent
Octoglot
Senior Member
Russian Federation
serpent-849.livejour
Joined 5444 days ago

9753 posts - 15778 votes 
4 sounds
Speaks: Russian*, English, FinnishC1, Latin, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese
Studies: Danish, Romanian, Polish, Belarusian, Ukrainian, Croatian, Slovenian, Catalan, Czech, Galician, Dutch, Swedish

 
 Message 32 of 119
22 July 2007 at 9:52pm | IP Logged 
Dankon! Vi estas tre helpema! :)
Mi legis 4 cxaptrojn de "Gerda malaperis" hodiaux. Estis tre interesa. Nun estas unua fojo tiam mi skribas en Esperanto.

Fortunately my frustration is gone now.
btw I did check the dictionary when writing the beginning of this post ^^. still it's nice considering I've never done anything for the grammar (except really short excercises in Vojagxu kun Zam), I've only tried to learn many sentences - in fact I can´t say I even know them all, but I would understand most of them. I'm starting to like the sentences method.


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