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"I learned English from watching..." | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Learning Techniques, Methods & Strategies |  | |
| datsunking1 Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 5586 days ago 1014 posts - 1533 votes  Speaks: English*, Spanish Studies: German, Russian, Dutch, French | Message 49 of 97 24 February 2010 at 5:48pm | IP Logged | |||||
I laughed so hard at "the little couch potatoes" hahahah :D I have to rent movies with my target language, TV and movies in another language aren't even available lol 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| SamD Triglot Senior Member United States Joined 6660 days ago 823 posts - 987 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish, French Studies: Portuguese, Norwegian | Message 50 of 97 24 February 2010 at 5:49pm | IP Logged | |||||
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Television in a second language can be good because it exposes you to the language as it is spoken. Native speakers don't always use formal or grammatically correct language, so you get some exposure to a variety of a language that doesn't always get much coverage in most language courses.
Perhaps the key is to watch as much of a variety of programming as possible. For example, if you want to learn vocabulary about cooking, watch a cooking show. You will be far less likely to find those words elsewhere on television. Children's shows are probably highly repetitive. Maybe the local version or equivalent of Sesame Street would be helpful. Some programs have lots of slang. If I watch a television show aimed at teenagers, I would pick up lots of slang. If it is an old television show, that slang might be really out of date and I could sound really odd to anybody I speak to...especially since I'm now far from being a teenager. My local cable television company provides two stations in Spanish. I often have trouble determining where one word stops and the next word starts. If I turn on the closed captioning, I find that the programs make much more sense. If I don't understand the input, the television that I watch isn't so helpful. If I don't pick up a word from context, I can always look it up in my dictionary. If I don't understand a grammatical point, I can go to a book about grammar. Children often pick up grammar from hearing things over and over, but they don't have much else to do but learn their language. I don't have that much time. Television can be a helpful and important part of learning a language, but I wouldn't go as far as saying that it can be the only tool I would use. It might not do much to help my reading and writing skills, and it doesn't respond to what I say. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| s_allard Triglot Senior Member Canada Joined 5431 days ago 2704 posts - 5425 votes Speaks: French*, English, Spanish Studies: Polish | Message 51 of 97 25 February 2010 at 5:03am | IP Logged | |||||
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The more I think about this question, the more I believe that one cannot learn a language just by watching television. I totally agree with the post of SamD. Yes, exposure to television is very useful, but there is no way that just watching a program can teach a language.
As an experiment I looked at some Russian television on Youtube. I know no Russian besides da and niet. I looked at a clip literally 20 times, and I didn't feel that I was learning anything. The problem of course is that the whole thing was meaningless to me from beginning to end. I had no clue what was going on. I don't think a 1000 hours of Russian television would teach me anything. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| vusalgustav Tetraglot Newbie Azerbaijan Joined 6277 days ago 23 posts - 56 votes Speaks: Azerbaijani*, English, Russian, Turkish Studies: German, Spanish | Message 52 of 97 25 February 2010 at 8:05am | IP Logged | |||||
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I have already written about my experience learning a language through TV. Now, I would
like to elaborate the mechanics and procedures which in my opinion I went through when I watched TV. First of all please keep in mind that I was probably at A1 level in both of the languages when I started to watch TVs in those languages. In Turkish it was due to the target language being close to my own mother language and in Russian it was because of the once per week Russian classes at the school. Another most important thing which should be taken into consideration is that when I started to watch Russian and Turkish programs when I was respectively 10 and 11 years old. My initial understanding of the TV programs (they were mainly cartoons) could be depicted as below: I xxxx from my yyyy zzzzz. First time, either of unknown words can be understood from the context of the course of the program or cannot be understood. To be honest I don’t care. For me the most important is the action. After further watching of different programs I realize that YYYY means “parents”. So the given sentence or similar sentence becomes for me as below. I xxxx from my parents’ zzzzz. Soon I come across with xxxx again, in similar or absolutely different context. I don’t understand it 1st time, 2nd time, 3rd time and etc. But after, let’s say 87th time, my stupid brain realizes that this word means either “come” or something similar. Although I don’t know exactly what is the exact meaning of the xxxx I assume it to be “come” (later on, I can substitute it with more correct one if needed). So the sentence appears to me as below. I come from my parents’ zzzz. Soon with more watching and context information I start understanding the word zzzz which means “place”. So I enter the fourth and last stage of understanding during the listening. I come from my parents’ place. Even in this stage, there are still might be the words which I don’t understand but I don’t care and ever did. Because, I know that after some time my brain itself will decide which word is that, providing that I supply him with more information (either through watching or reading). It took me up to 4 years to reach the last stage of understanding which correspondence, in my opinion, to C1 in those languages. It was achieved by watching couple of hours of TV (my parents never had any kind of restrictions on TV watching) every day. Again I feel urge to mention that, I had never had any formal studying in Turkish and I had only once a week school Russian classes which was absolutely useless apart of teaching some basics. Some more thoughts about learning through TV: Was I able to speak a language as fluently as I understood it? I believe I answered to this question in my previous post. Do I believe that someone can learn a language from scratch only watching a TV? Yes and No. Yes, because if you dedicate to something enough time, eventually your brain, as it is very analytical, will start making patterns and then choose the options among those patterns eventually clearing the view for you . The brain is unbelievably powerful thing. But it might take very long time. As a child may be we have a time for that, but as an adult we don’t. So my answer would be: Theoretically it is possible, but practically no. In my opinion, one should implement this method only after he or she reaches A1 or better A2 level and have in his or her disposal coming 3-5 years. The higher your level is the less time is required. Because your brain will work with less words and patterns as it already knows plenty from your studies. Do you believe that children are efficient language learners? No. First of all because, they don’t learn the language by themselves. They are actively taught by somebody, that person being parents, elder siblings, grandparents or nanny. If they don’t understand something they ask. Their perception and inquisitive nature is supplement to their active learning. Despite this active teaching, it takes the kids to reach the B2 level (I believe that is the level the kids reach when they start going to school) in 4-5 years. If we, as a grown ups, spend so much time actively studying and reaching only B2 level after 4-5 years, I think most of us wouldn’t learn any language at all. I think the post is already too long. So I’ll finish here. Sorry for taking your time and possible language mistakes in the post. PS. Here I mean watching TV without subtitles. With subtitles it is different matter. 3 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| chucknorrisman Triglot Senior Member United States Joined 5449 days ago 321 posts - 435 votes Speaks: Korean*, English, Spanish Studies: Russian, Mandarin, Lithuanian, French | Message 53 of 97 25 February 2010 at 9:15am | IP Logged | |||||
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That is very interesting, vusalgustav. But I'm wondering whether you were able to learn Turkish by watching TV because Turkish and Azerbaijani are very closely related, and whether you were able to learn Russian because even if the class didn't do much, you were able to at least have the basics through the classes. I wonder if it would be possible for me to, say, watch Mongol (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mongol_%28film%29) over and over again and learn Mongolian, which I don't have any knowledge of and is not really related to any of the languages I know currently?
And what do you mean by that it would be a different matter with subtitles? As in would that impede learning? Edited by chucknorrisman on 25 February 2010 at 9:16am 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Paskwc Pentaglot Senior Member Canada Joined 5678 days ago 450 posts - 624 votes Speaks: Hindi, Urdu*, Arabic (Levantine), French, English Studies: Persian, Spanish | Message 54 of 97 25 February 2010 at 9:26am | IP Logged | |||||
Just for clarification ... 1) I get that you're saying that the TV method rarely takes someone from a beginner level to fluency. However, is there a stage at which the TV method becomes viable for learners? Should it follow a more traditional introduction or should it serve as an introduction? Should it be seen as a concurrent exercise? 2) Is television as valuable to your listening skills as books are to your reading skills? 3) Do you feel purpose-specific TV programming, such as Destinos and FIA, are exceptions? 4) Does your general language learning philosophy differentiate between how passive and active skills are acquired? P.S. When I write in English, I come off as being a bit confrontational. In reality, my tone is simply one of curiosity. Edited by Paskwc on 25 February 2010 at 9:31am 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| vusalgustav Tetraglot Newbie Azerbaijan Joined 6277 days ago 23 posts - 56 votes Speaks: Azerbaijani*, English, Russian, Turkish Studies: German, Spanish | Message 55 of 97 25 February 2010 at 9:37am | IP Logged | |||||
I don't think one person can learn a language by a watching the same material over and over again. The words need to be in different contexts in order to be figured out what they mean. In my opinion if I start watching TV in Mongol now, I can learn it. But it will take at least 5-10 years regular watching before I am able to make meaningful conversation. But if I learn a little bit Mongol up to A1 or A2 and only then implement only TV method I can reduce that time to 3-5 years. With subtitles it is different because it helps a lot. 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| chucknorrisman Triglot Senior Member United States Joined 5449 days ago 321 posts - 435 votes Speaks: Korean*, English, Spanish Studies: Russian, Mandarin, Lithuanian, French | Message 56 of 97 25 February 2010 at 9:45am | IP Logged | |||||
I see what you are saying. I just wanted to do a little experiment for a while and see if I could learn a language by just watching movies and TV shows in it without learning any of it previously, but yeah, Mongolian has a very limited amount of resources. I'll try some Italian (in which Spanish would help a bit) or some Indian language (which is new to me). If I get any results in say, 6 months, I'll post something. So do you mean that with subtitles it helps the language learning? Just want to make clear what you mean. 1 person has voted this message useful |
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