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The role and usefulness of Irish | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Specific Languages |  | |
| ChristopherB Triglot Senior Member New Zealand Joined 6317 days ago 851 posts - 1074 votes  2 sounds Speaks: English*, German, French | Message 33 of 162 18 June 2010 at 4:57am | IP Logged | ||||||||
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If anyone knows, does the Irish accent among English speakers originally come from the Irish language or was that a separate development? Is it possible for speakers of Gaeilge to have a "strong accent"? Edited by ChristopherB on 18 June 2010 at 5:40am 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Cainntear Pentaglot Senior Member Scotland linguafrankly.blogsp Joined 6012 days ago 4399 posts - 7687 votes Speaks: Lowland Scots, English*, French, Spanish, Scottish Gaelic Studies: Catalan, Italian, German, Irish, Welsh | Message 34 of 162 18 June 2010 at 3:29pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
Elements of it, certainly. For example, there's no sound like either English TH in Irish, so you'll often hear Irish people saying things that sound a little like "I tink so" and "dat ting", but the TV is exposing kids to this sort of sound at a younger age, so the accent is softening. Other elements of the Irish accent are thought to derive from the English of the English-speaking settlements -- most of these were from SW England, IIRC. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| stout Senior Member Ireland Joined 5372 days ago 108 posts - 140 votes Speaks: English* Studies: French | Message 35 of 162 18 June 2010 at 11:02pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
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Irish is a dead language.It is of no use to people in Ireland.I believe that Irish
people would be far better off to learn a mainland European language like French or German or Spanish.Languages of importance and relevance for today and the future. The Irish govt should ditch this outdated obsession of making Irish a compulsory language in schools and make French or German or Spanish a complusory second language in schools instead.This complusion with Irish might of been relevant in the 1920's to the 1960's,but not today.The Irish govt are living in the past as usual. 4 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Cainntear Pentaglot Senior Member Scotland linguafrankly.blogsp Joined 6012 days ago 4399 posts - 7687 votes Speaks: Lowland Scots, English*, French, Spanish, Scottish Gaelic Studies: Catalan, Italian, German, Irish, Welsh | Message 36 of 162 19 June 2010 at 12:53am | IP Logged | ||||||||
A dead language is one with no native speakers. There may not be many Irish speakers, but there are some, ergo it is not dead.
OK, now where are you going to get the teachers from? 4 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||
| stout Senior Member Ireland Joined 5372 days ago 108 posts - 140 votes Speaks: English* Studies: French | Message 37 of 162 19 June 2010 at 1:41am | IP Logged | ||||||||
How do I know.I am not in the Irish govt,so I cannot answer your question. Edited by stout on 19 June 2010 at 1:43am 3 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Declan1991 Tetraglot Senior Member Ireland Joined 6440 days ago 233 posts - 359 votes Speaks: English*, German, Irish, French | Message 38 of 162 19 June 2010 at 12:29pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
The other fallacy in your post (besides the dead language) is that forcing people to learn any language makes them learn it. People only learn languages they are interested in, end of story. Most people come out from their schooling after 6 years of serious Irish study plus a few extra, and 6 years of French or German unable to speak them well because they are uninterested, not because there are faults in the education system. 4 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Cainntear Pentaglot Senior Member Scotland linguafrankly.blogsp Joined 6012 days ago 4399 posts - 7687 votes Speaks: Lowland Scots, English*, French, Spanish, Scottish Gaelic Studies: Catalan, Italian, German, Irish, Welsh | Message 39 of 162 19 June 2010 at 12:57pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
Well then you've obviously not thought this through. The Scottish educational establishment has been trying for years to introduce compulsory language lessons into the primary school. I believe it is now impossible to qualify as a primary school teacher without knowledge of some language other than English, but that has barely taken a dent out of it -- the majority of primary teachers were trained before the rules came in anyway. Not only that, but what they consider an "adequate" level of language is risible -- no-one's ever going to learn anything from the vast majority of these classes, even if they wanted to. Secondly, I have tried to teach English to kids who had been learning "English" from Spaniards throughout primary school. It's a fool's errand. An environment with no native speakers results in everyone speaking a non-native dialect heavily influenced by their shared mother tongue. They don't learn the language, they create a new language. Spain has pushed English into the primary school in a big way, and they've overstretched themselves, forcing themselves to put people who don't really speaking English in charge of English classes. You're asking for Ireland to make the same mistake. A great idea has to take account of the practicalities, so howling about dropping Irish in favour of something that can't be done just makes you look like an ignorant bigot and a moron. 5 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||
| stout Senior Member Ireland Joined 5372 days ago 108 posts - 140 votes Speaks: English* Studies: French | Message 40 of 162 19 June 2010 at 7:54pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
Steady on!...Let's keep it sporting...Look at the Netherlands and the Scandinavian countries they learn English at an early age and nearly all Dutch and Scandinavian people are near fluent in English plus some knowledge of an other European language. As for the subject of teaching Irish.In Ireland it's complusory to learn Irish however only 20% of people can speak Irish most of them only a basic knowledge of Irish.What my point is that the Irish govt should stop making Irish a complusory subject and make it voluntary instead. As for the politicans in Ireland.The leader of the main opppostion party Enda Kenny stated sometime back that if he got into govt he would no longer make Irish complusory in schools and make it voluntary instead and Mr Kenny himself is a fluent Irish speaker. As said before it is far more useful for an Irish person to learn a mainland European language as a second language rather than Irish.It's nothing to do with ideology. It's to do with pragmatism and realism and my view stands on that.If an Irish person wants to learn Irish or a mainland European language that's his or her choice. Edited by stout on 19 June 2010 at 7:58pm 2 persons have voted this message useful |
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