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 Language Learning Forum : General discussion |  | |
| kanewai Triglot Senior Member United States justpaste.it/kanewai Joined 4887 days ago 1386 posts - 3054 votes  Speaks: English*, French, Marshallese Studies: Italian, Spanish | Message 593 of 766 20 September 2014 at 2:43am | IP Logged | ||||||||
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September Challenge: French
I picked a passage from La peste (The Plague) by Albert Camus. At this point in the story the plague has established itself in Oran. The city has been sealed off from the outside world, and the death toll is at 130 per day and slowly rising. The priest Paneloux has just held an outdoor mass to pray for the city's deliverance. Tarrou and Dr. Rieux are discussing the service afterwards. This is the first point where the novel turns philosophical: - Croyez-vous en Dieu, docteur? La question était encore posée naturellement. Mais cette fois, Rieux hésita. - Non, mais quest-ce que cela veut dire? Je suis dans la nuit, et j’essaie d’y voir clair. - N’est-ce pas ce qui vous sépare de Paneloux? - Je ne crois pas. Paneloux est un homme d’études. Il n’a pas vu assez mourir et c’est pourquoi il parle au nom d’une verité. Mais le moindre prêtre de champagne qui administer ses paroissiens et qui a entendu la respiration d’un mourant pense comme moi. Il soignerait la misère avant de vouloir en démontrer l’excellence. - Voilà, dit Tarrou. Pourquoi vous-même montrez-vous tant de dévouement puisque vous ne croyez pas en Dieu? San sortir de l’ombre, le docteur dit qu’il avait déjà répondu, que s’il croyait en un Dieu tout-puissant, il cesserait de guérir les hommes, lui laissent alors ce soin. Mais que personne au monde, non, pas même Paneloux qui croyait y croire, ne croyait en un Dieu de cette sorte, puisque personne ne s’abandonnait totalement et qu`en cela du moins, lui, Rieux, croyait être sur le chemin de la vérité, en luttant contre la creation telle qu’elle était. ---------------------------------------------------- My translation: - Do you believe in God, doctor? The question was posed naturally. But this time Rieux hesitated. - No, but what does that mean? I am in the darkness, and I try to see things clearly. - And isn’t this what separates you from Paneloux? - I don’t think so. Paneloux is an academic. He hasn’t seen enough death, and this is why he speaks in the name of ‘truth.’ But the most common country priest, who tends to his parishioners and who listens to the last breath of the dying, thinks like I do. He will care for the poor before trying to demonstrate the excellence (of God). - Voilà, said Tarrou. Then why do you show so much dedication if you don’t believe in God? Without leaving the shadows, the doctor said that he had already answered this, that if he believed in an all-powerful God then he would stop taking care of men, that he would leave them to His care. But nobody in the world, not even Paneloux, who believes that he believes, believes in this kind of God, because no one is giving up completely, and in this at least he, Rieux, thinks that he is on the right path in fighting against creation as it is. ---------------------------------------------------- I am, of course, open to any suggestions or corrections! There were a couple parts that made sense to me in French, but where I struggled to find a smooth English translation. Il soignerait la misère avant de vouloir en démontrer l’excellence was the trickiest, followed by la creation telle qu’elle était. ---------------------------------------------------- I'll find something nice in Italian for next week. Edited by kanewai on 20 September 2014 at 2:48am 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| kanewai Triglot Senior Member United States justpaste.it/kanewai Joined 4887 days ago 1386 posts - 3054 votes Speaks: English*, French, Marshallese Studies: Italian, Spanish | Message 594 of 766 25 September 2014 at 11:32pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
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September Challenge: Italian
Subtitled: Another reason for reading novels in their original language Selection from Il Gattopardo (The Serval, a.k.a. The Leopard) Sicily. May, 1860: Don Fabrizio Corbera, Prince of Salina, is in his garden reflecting on the death of an unknown peasant soldier. The soldier has died “for the king,” and the Prince’s thoughts turn back to his own meetings with the ageing Re Ferdinando: Le udienze, le molte udienze che Re Ferdinando gli aveva concesse, a Caserta, a Napoli, a Capodimonte, a Portici, a casa del diavolo... A fianco del ciambellano di servizio che lo guidava chiacchierando, con la feluca sotto il braccio e le più fresche volgarità napoletane sulle labbra, si percorrevano interminabili sale di architettura magnifica e di mobilio stomachevole (proprio come la monarchia borbonica), ci s’infilava in anditi sudicetti e scalette mal tenute e si sbucava in un’anticamera dove parecchia gente aspettava: facce chiuse di sbirri, facce avide di questuanti raccomandati. Il ciambellano si scusava, faceva superare l’ostacolo della gentaglia, e lo pilotava verso un’altra anticamera, quella riservata alla gente di Corte: un ambientino azzurro e argento; e dopo una breve attesa un servo grattava alla porta e si era ammessi alla Presenza Augusta. My translation: The audiences, the many audiences that King Fernando had given him at Caserta, at Napoli, at Capodimonte, at Portici, at the house of the devil … At his side the chamberlain guiding him, gossiping, with his hat under his arm and the freshest Neapolitan obscenities on his lips, traversing interminable rooms with magnificent architecture and disgusting furniture (exactly like the Bourbon monarchy itself), through filthy hallways and poorly maintained stairs and emerging in an anteroom where many men waited: the closed faces of secret police, the greedy faces of well-connected petitioners. The chamberlain excusing himself, pushing through the blockade of people, and guiding him towards another antechamber that was reserved for gentlemen of the court: a small blue and silver space, and after a brief wait a servant scratching (?) at the door and he was admitted into the August Presence. ____________________________________________________________ _________ I relied heavily on the WordReference Dictionary. I tried to use the Kindle dictionary, but it sucks for Italian – there were over a dozen words just in this passage that it couldn't identify. I like this passage because it’s a good example of how much we miss when we read books in translation. The literal Italian was far more colorful and earthy than the most well-known (maybe the only) English translation by Archibald Colquhuon. A few examples: IT: a casa del diavolo... AC: anywhere at all kanewai: at the house of the devil IT: le più fresche volgarità napoletane sulle labra AC: the latest Neapolitan slang on his lips kanewai: the freshest Neapolitan obscenities on his lips IT: sale di architettura magnifica e di mobilio stomachevole AC: rooms of magnificent architecture and revolting décor kanewai: rooms with magnificent architecture and disgusting furniture (stomachevole – “revulsion of the stomach” – is such a great word.) IT: un ambientino azzurro e argento AC: a little blue and silver room of the period of Charles II kanewai: this is a strange one; AC just added the part about “the period of Charles II” IT: facce avide di questuanti raccomandati AC: avid faces of petitioners kanewai: the greedy faces of well-connected petitioners I wasn't trying to be creative with my translations; I mostly went with the most literal definitions – and I still think it came out better than the professional one. Sometimes I think that translators try to be too proper, and they drain a lot of the fun out of the original. I'd rather have the original foul-mouthed chamberlain guiding me to an audience with the king in the house of the devil than a merely gossipy chamberlain with "all the latest slang" on his lips. Edited by kanewai on 25 September 2014 at 11:42pm 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Serpent Octoglot Senior Member Russian Federation serpent-849.livejour Joined 6595 days ago 9753 posts - 15779 votes 4 sounds Speaks: Russian*, English, FinnishC1, Latin, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese Studies: Danish, Romanian, Polish, Belarusian, Ukrainian, Croatian, Slovenian, Catalan, Czech, Galician, Dutch, Swedish | Message 595 of 766 28 September 2014 at 6:01am | IP Logged | ||||||||
wait, that's confusing. the bot already displays the new week indicators (ie no checkmark), and did so before I submitted a Swedish item, but it still got registered as September 27 :/ (speaking of that, would it be possible to display the checkmarks even if you don't currently have an active streak for the language?) 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Radioclare Triglot Senior Member United Kingdom timeofftakeoff.com Joined 4581 days ago 689 posts - 1119 votes Speaks: English*, German, Esperanto Studies: Croatian, Serbian, Macedonian | Message 596 of 766 29 September 2014 at 11:14pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
I'm not at the stage of reading original Croatian literature or poetry yet, so I've chosen to translate a song called 'E, moj druže beogradski' instead. I listen to quite a lot of Croatian music and this is nowhere near the best song I know, but it is the first one I ever listened to, not long after I started learning the language. I was reading some books on Yugoslavian history, in particular about the wars during the 1990s, and as a pacifist I was interested to read about whether there were any anti-war movements in any of the countries involved. The singer of this song, the Croatian Jura Stublić, was mentioned as somebody who had sung songs with anti-war themes, so I looked him up on Youtube. At the time my Croatian wasn't very good and it took me a long time to understand the gist of the lyrics. While I was googling phrases from the song, I learned that although the lyrics seemed fairly harmless to me, they had not been without controversy at the time. The frontman of the Serbian band Riblja Čorba wrote a nationalistic parody of the song called 'E, moj druže Zagrebački'. I won't translate that one - let's just say the lyrics aren't very nice - but if you are interested you can find a video of the song with lyrics here Anyway, here is the Croatian text of the original song 'E, moj druže beogradski':
And this is my attempt at translating into English (just the sense of it - it doesn't rhyme like the original!)
There's a music video for the song on Youtube but it's seriously bad. If you want to listen to it I recommend this video which just has the lyrics, karaoke-style. 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||
| BAnna Triglot Senior Member United States Joined 4620 days ago 409 posts - 616 votes Speaks: English*, German, Spanish Studies: Russian, Turkish | Message 597 of 766 30 September 2014 at 5:44am | IP Logged | ||||||||
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My attempts at the September translation challenge can be found in message 221 of:
my log I paraphrased/rough translated to English short excerpts from a short story by Javier Macías (original in Spanish) and from Victor Pelevin's novel Buddha's Little Finger (version I'm reading is in German, though the original is in Russian). 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Lorren Senior Member United States brookelorren.com/blo Joined 4249 days ago 286 posts - 324 votes Speaks: English* Studies: German, Spanish, Danish, Irish Studies: Russian | Message 598 of 766 30 September 2014 at 8:39am | IP Logged | ||||||||
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It was pointed out to me that this post could contain spoilers if you haven't read the first 1 1/2 Divergent books...
Since I'm still working on Insurgente, I translated a passage from it. In this section, Tris is still feeling guilty over the things that she did (she shot her friend in self-defense and did some other things that she felt guilty over). She thinks that she has the chance to make up for her guilt by sacrificing herself to the enemy to save some lives. She's talking to her boyfriend: ......... “¿Tenías que elegir este momento para comportarte como una abnegada?” pregunta, y su voz llena la habitación y despierta el miedo en mi pecho; su rabia es demasiado repetina, demasiado extraña. “Después de pasar tanto tiempo insistiendo en que eras demasiado egoísta para ellos, ahora, cuando tu vida está en juego, ¿tienes que ser un héroe? ¿Qué pasa contigo?” “Que pasa contigo? Ha muerto gente, ¡se tiraron desde la azotea de un edificio! ¡Y yo puedo evitar suceda de nuevo!” “Eres demasiado importante para… morir sin más” responde, sacudiendo la cabeza; ni siquiera me mira, no deja de apartar la mirada para dirigirla a la pared que tengo detrás, al techo que tengo encima, a cualquier cosa, salvo a mí. Estoy demasiado sorprendida para enfadarme. “No soy importante. A todo el mundo le irá bien sin mí.” “¿Y a quién le importa todo el mundo? ¿Qué hay de mí?” ...... My translation: “You had to choose this moment to act like you’re in Abnegation?” he asks, his voice fills the room and wakes a fear in my chest; his rage was a little too sudden, a little too strange. After spending so much time insisting that you were too selfish to be a part of them, now, when your life is on the line, now you have to be a hero? What is wrong with you?” “What’s wrong with me? People died; they stepped off the roof of a building! And I can stop that from happening again!” “You’re too important to… to die,” he responds, shaking his head. He won’t look at me, he looks at the wall behind me, the ceiling above me, anything but me. I am a little too surprised to be angry. “I’m not important. The whole world will be fine without me.” “Who cares about the whole world? What about me?” .... I did have help from Google Translate, and, when I was stuck, had a little help from the English version of the book as well. Edited by Lorren on 15 October 2014 at 6:59am 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||
| kanewai Triglot Senior Member United States justpaste.it/kanewai Joined 4887 days ago 1386 posts - 3054 votes Speaks: English*, French, Marshallese Studies: Italian, Spanish | Message 599 of 766 11 October 2014 at 1:59am | IP Logged | ||||||||
Move over, Harry Potter! Look what I found on the web this morning - The United Kingdom's second best-selling author is also available in tons of languages. And a lot of these are available on Amazon.
For those unfamiliar with Terry Pratchett, his Discworld stories are comic fantasy novels. They're great fun, IMHO. You don't have to read them in order - the "reading guides" are more fun things for nerds to geek out over. 
There are a lot more languages available - even Turkish! - but no one has made guides yet. Maybe I'll be inspired if I can find a blank template. (my apologies for the large size of the images; I tried posting smaller ones but they weren't legible). Edited by kanewai on 11 October 2014 at 2:52am 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Serpent Octoglot Senior Member Russian Federation serpent-849.livejour Joined 6595 days ago 9753 posts - 15779 votes 4 sounds Speaks: Russian*, English, FinnishC1, Latin, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese Studies: Danish, Romanian, Polish, Belarusian, Ukrainian, Croatian, Slovenian, Catalan, Czech, Galician, Dutch, Swedish | Message 600 of 766 11 October 2014 at 3:47am | IP Logged | ||||||||
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Wow. No idea why I always thought it's something like Dickens or similar.
And well, if you want to resize the images you can do that on your own computer and upload to tinypic or imgur. There are also flash-based sites for that, like pixlr or picmonkey. 1 person has voted this message useful |
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