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Shadowing - how to do it? | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Learning Techniques, Methods & Strategies |  | |
 jeff_lindqvist Diglot Moderator SwedenRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 6912 days ago 4250 posts - 5711 votes  Speaks: Swedish*, English Studies: German, Spanish, Russian, Dutch, Mandarin, Esperanto, Irish, French Personal Language Map | Message 33 of 69 25 September 2013 at 11:09pm | IP Logged | |||||
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Written content or not, he does mention blind shadowing as the first step.
Regarding the atrocious pronunciation of Chinese, I think it's similar to what some people feel about singing (or playing an instrument) - they might do it so-so or even fairly well on their own, but when doing it simultaneously with a recording/a choir/a fellow musician/an orchestra, the feeling would be different. This is also one of the main arguments stated by Olle "Speech Doctor" Kjellin, although his chorus method isn't exactly the same thing as shadowing. However, both Kjellin and Arguelles suggest that there is a lot of benefit from the background noise. Edited by jeff_lindqvist on 25 September 2013 at 11:11pm 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| coin2213 Newbie Burkina Faso Joined 5452 days ago 5 posts - 20 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Spanish | Message 34 of 69 26 September 2013 at 10:27am | IP Logged | |||||
I concur. "Shadowing" is not an invention of Mr. Arguelles. The earliest reference that I have found is from Linguaphone's Egyptian Arabic (1960) course page 203: "4. Speaking... Practise as follows: Listen to the record and read aloud from the Textbook with the speaker. (If you find you cannot keep up with him, you need more listening practice.) Repeat two or three times until you are quite certain of your pronunciation and can keep up with the speaker." The above quote is from a 50-year-old text! Another source comes from "Success with Foreign Languages (1989)" page 77: "4.2.6 A TECHNIQUE: ‘Shadowing’ a news broadcast Another technique from Derek 1.Listen to a newscast in your native language. Try repeating along with the speaker. Do this for at least two minutes. How did this ‘shadowing’ make you feel? How strenuous, or how relaxing, did you find it‘? After you had done it, how much did you remember of the content of what you had repeated? 2.Try doing the same thing in a language that is foreign to you. Don’t let your mind stop to figure out or remember anything that you don’t understand. How did this compare with ‘shadowing’ in your native language? How easy, or how hard, did you find it to keep from hanging up on the words and phrases that you didn’t know?" And then another from a BBC Two documentary called "How to Learn a Language (1990s)" in which the female narrator demonstrates "shadowing" while walking in a park listeing to the target language via a walkman minus the book. Link to video (shadowing demo is around the 29:40 mark): http://www.mediafire.com/download/hti4lunpej1gd92/BBC_-_How_ to_Learn_a_Language.rar In reality none of these so-called language learning techniques are knew: they are simply a rediscovery or recombination of known or lesser known techniques. "There is nothing new under the sun." - Ecclesiastes 1:9 A final example is the so-called 10000 sentence method in which you are to memorize 10000 sentences. The earliest date of this method that I have found is from the 1800s. In "The Mastery of Languages" written by Thomas Prendergast he developed a method to speak a target/foreign langage by memorizing a few hundred sentences (derived from five long sentences) and then substituting and tranposing the words in them after being mastered. His method could be called one of the precursors to the audio-lingual method. Link to Thomas Prendergast's works: http://archive.org/search.php?query=creator%3A%22thomas+pren dergast%22 Link to a book which could be called one of the precursors to the Assimil and Linguaphone method minus the audio (recording device not invented yet), but the parallel text is central?" Title: The Study of Languages Brought Back to its True Principles (1869) http://archive.org/details/studyoflanguages00cmarrich Edited by coin2213 on 05 October 2013 at 9:46am 7 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| Retinend Triglot Senior Member SpainRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 4311 days ago 283 posts - 557 votes Speaks: English*, German, Spanish Studies: Arabic (Written), French | Message 36 of 69 26 September 2013 at 7:09pm | IP Logged | |||||
Gladly :) In L-R you work with one text (L2) with a translation (L1) and a tape of it being read (L1). You listen and read. You're always understanding what you're hearing, because your L1 is always next to you. You work systematically through the entire text and you repeat the process until the sentences are pushed deep inside your memory. You first understand the text "globally" (you get the gist), then at sequentially deeper levels until it all feels natural to you. In shadowing you work with one text (L2) with a translation (L1) and a tape of it being read (L1). You listen and speak; you listen and speak and read; you read, speak and write (in the scriptorium). You're always understanding what you're hearing, because you have the L1 text in front of you. You work systematically through the entire text and you repeat the process, also writing it out in the scriptorium, until the sentences are pushed deep inside your memory. You first understand the text "globally" (you get the gist), then at sequentially deeper levels until it all feels natural to you. One more thing: I think people let their imaginations dwell on blind shadowing too much, and it colours their whole concept of shadowing. Blind shadowing isn't necessary when you no longer feel "blind" to any given audio on first listen. 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| montmorency Diglot Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 4831 days ago 2371 posts - 3676 votes Speaks: English*, German Studies: Danish, Welsh | Message 37 of 69 26 September 2013 at 9:47pm | IP Logged | |||||
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Thanks Retinend.
Although I have known about shadowing (Arguelles style) for quite some time now, I hadn't thought about it much until recently, when I re-watched all the Arguelles videos with a fresh eye and ear. There is probably more to it than some of us have previously thought (including myself, and I'm learning a new respect for it lately). I always knew that shadowing and L-R were related, or could be related (even if they are not exactly the same thing), and you have helped to throw fresh light on that. And by the way, as Jeff Lindquist says, Professor Arguelles suggests starting with "blind shadowing", and he also says to use it from the very earliest days of learning a language, so in contrast to his having "started shadowing Chinese too soon", in the Professor's way of doing things, there can hardly be a "too soon" at which to start. You start shadowing right from the off (as soon as you have got your materials together, anyway). There is one small thing that bothers me: he seems to insist on earphones, and not headphones. This seems to me to be a personal thing, and I wonder why one would be better than the other, from his point of view. Does anyone know? 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Retinend Triglot Senior Member SpainRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 4311 days ago 283 posts - 557 votes Speaks: English*, German, Spanish Studies: Arabic (Written), French | Message 39 of 69 27 September 2013 at 11:55am | IP Logged | |||||
You need to hear that "stethoscope" feedback from your voice into your ears.
Thanks for asking. 1. I shadowed Linguaphone German, then 1950s Assimil, then 2000s Assimil. Now I'm finishing the last pages of Franz Kafka's Die Verwandlung. 2. About a month apiece for the above. 3. I was unhappy if I studied less than 5 hours a day. 4. My usual day was: 20 minutes of shadowing + 40 minutes of scriptorium. Break. 20 minutes of shadowing + 40 minutes of scriptorium. Break. Etc. 5. The results were that I progressed from poor understanding to complete understanding of the above texts - listening or reading. Also with each text I completed, I found that my general comprehension of NEW material raised. When I speak in the language, I find that I can join together chunks of language that I have in a bank. 1. I only flirted with LR when beginning Die Verwandlung. I tried all permatations: reading L1 with L2 audio; reading L2 with L1 audio; reading L1 with L1 audio. I did this for about 3 hours a day for two weeks. This replaced the "shadowing" part of my regime and now I alternative between LR-style study and scriptorium. I think that this technique is more appropriate for the level I'm now at. 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| montmorency Diglot Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 4831 days ago 2371 posts - 3676 votes Speaks: English*, German Studies: Danish, Welsh | Message 40 of 69 27 September 2013 at 2:45pm | IP Logged | |||||
I'm not sure I quite understand this. Would you care to expand on it? And does anyone else have an opinion on it? From a purely practical point of view, I've found earphones are worse than headphones when out and about, since they don't keep out traffic noise etc. as well. Of course, I like to get away from traffic noise as much as possible, but that's not so easy when making language-learning "part of your daily life". I have other issues with earphones/buds, but they are more personal to me. So how important exactly is this feedback, and how does it work? Is there anywhere where he explains this? I've only seen or heard brief references to using earphones not headphones, but never seen or heard his explanation why. (I've just remembered that he used to post here, and maybe it's somewhere here in one of his postings, if I try to search back. I'll come back and say if I find anything, but anyone else do feel free to chip in). 1 person has voted this message useful |
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