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Are we all a bunch of wusses? | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : General discussion |  | |
| Envinyatar Diglot Senior Member Guatemala Joined 5544 days ago 147 posts - 240 votes  Speaks: Spanish*, English Studies: Modern Hebrew | Message 105 of 151 09 December 2009 at 12:10am | IP Logged | ||
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What about English? Am I a wuss for learning the most useful language on earth instead of !Xhosa, Tamil, Shanghainese or whatever other language you consider more "manly"?
Is Hebrew non-wuss enough for you? 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Sprachjunge Diglot Senior Member Germany Joined 7173 days ago 368 posts - 548 votes Speaks: English*, GermanC2 Studies: Spanish, Russian | Message 106 of 151 09 December 2009 at 1:14am | IP Logged | ||
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For me, and I’m pretty sure that I’m not the only one on here, part (not ALL, or even MOST), but part of the fun of learning a language is beginning to identify with the culture and see reflections of ourselves within it. That’s if you’re learning the language for fun. So, we end up with two camps.
Camp 1: Many people from countries with certain economic pressures learn a language (*cough* English) because they have to. It is an economic imperative that they add to their skill set so that they can function in this global economy. Chic isn’t a factor; necessity is. They couldn't care less if most people think of native British or American speakers before considering them as part of this cultural collective; the language must be learned. Camp 2: People who learn languages for fun. There are myriad reasons for doing so, but the one relevant for my point is this sense of identification. Chances are, if one is in a financial position to consider the luxury of language learning for fun, there is this sense of being able to “integrate” into the culture and somehow “become” –insert IE language here--. The further and more exotic you get, the less likely this becomes. So, perhaps you have Western Europeans shying away from African languages because the “assimilation” fantasy wouldn’t work, even in one’s mind. And—perhaps—the people who actually would be able to take advantage of this cultural affinity are precisely those whose economic incentives steer them away from them. That said, here’s a confession, my How-To-Learn family: I am African-American, and although I am nuts about all things German—truly I am—one thing that has allowed Spanish and French to keep special places in my heart is their history of having significant African cultural groups as native speakers—that are present in the global consciousness! (Read: There are plenty of African/Black Germans/Italians, etc., but comparatively speaking, they are not recognized in the same way.) Sum it up by saying that it’s ultra-cool to have the possibility of being taken for a native speaker, which is much more likely with Spanish or French (for me) than German. That has to be a factor for some people. It doesn’t explain all of this "wussiness" phenomenon,* but I can’t believe that I’m alone here. *Indeed, the surge in Japanese/Chinese among Americans who are clearly not of Asian descent is a good counter-example best explained by other factors Edited by Sprachjunge on 09 December 2009 at 5:51am 8 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Oleg Triglot Groupie Russian FederationRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5837 days ago 57 posts - 95 votes Speaks: Russian*, Polish, English Studies: Spanish, French, Italian | Message 107 of 151 09 December 2009 at 10:42am | IP Logged | ||
This is definitely one of the funniest things I ever read on this forum. What's next? "According to Fabio, our universe is..."? If you want to know what culture is, ask some encyclopedia. not Fabio. Edited by Oleg on 09 December 2009 at 5:50pm 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| cordelia0507 Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 5846 days ago 1473 posts - 2176 votes Speaks: Swedish* Studies: German, Russian | Message 108 of 151 09 December 2009 at 11:01am | IP Logged | ||
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I think that Sprachjunge's post was excellent - but being taken for a native speaker is near impossible if you start learning as an adult. You need to have the grammar and vocabulary down before you are ~13-14 for this to be possible. Exception perhaps being if you speak a global language, in which people may at first mistake you for a native speaker from another region.
What you can hope for if you learn as a an adult (and if you move to another country) is being accepted and considered well-integrated. Plus there will always be prejudiced people and it sure doesn't make it easier to look physically different from the majority. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Oleg Triglot Groupie Russian FederationRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5837 days ago 57 posts - 95 votes Speaks: Russian*, Polish, English Studies: Spanish, French, Italian | Message 109 of 151 09 December 2009 at 2:56pm | IP Logged | ||
which will find reasons to be prejudiced even against native speakers, right?) 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Lizzern Diglot Senior Member Norway Joined 5917 days ago 791 posts - 1053 votes Speaks: Norwegian*, English Studies: Japanese | Message 110 of 151 09 December 2009 at 5:42pm | IP Logged | ||
Why? Grammar can be learned. Vocabulary can be learned. Idioms can be learned. Pronunciation can be practiced and perfected over time if that's what people want. I fail to see what there could possibly be about a foreign language that it would be impossible to get right even if you work at it in an effective way. That's not to say it's easy - that would be a ridiculous statement, of course - but I don't see why people insist it isn't even doable. And anyway, even if people never truly get as good as native speakers are, some still get taken for native speakers all the time. It could be that because the vast vast majority of language learners plateau and stop learning, we are so used to that level of ability in a foreign language that at some level we think that's how it has to be, that's the best people can do. Imo, that's not the case. 3 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Oleg Triglot Groupie Russian FederationRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5837 days ago 57 posts - 95 votes Speaks: Russian*, Polish, English Studies: Spanish, French, Italian | Message 111 of 151 09 December 2009 at 5:52pm | IP Logged | ||
But you'll never sound native, that's the problem. Although I must say that I don't see any trouble here.) 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Lizzern Diglot Senior Member Norway Joined 5917 days ago 791 posts - 1053 votes Speaks: Norwegian*, English Studies: Japanese | Message 112 of 151 09 December 2009 at 6:01pm | IP Logged | ||
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"You'll never sound native" is not some universal truth. It's been done. So I don't see why it's seen as impossible? Relatively rare, sure, requiring a lot of effort and practice, sure, but impossible? Hardly.
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