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Are we all a bunch of wusses? | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : General discussion |  | |
| nhk9 Senior Member Canada Joined 6812 days ago 290 posts - 319 votes  Speaks: English* | Message 57 of 151 18 December 2008 at 4:41am | IP Logged | |||||||||||
I am having a hard time understanding the point that you are trying to make. Are you suggesting that if we learn Hindi or other languages that you mentioned, then we are not wusses? I have been to Chinese forums and most people there are concerned with learning East Asian languages (besides English). I am sure Arabic forums will contain many who are learning Persian and the like. It's just a fact of life. Cantonese is a much harder language to learn than Italian for any European. Furthermore, do Europeans have needs/interests in learning a language such as Cantonese? Unless you have a spouse or you live in the Canton region for some reason, there are just too few reasons to spend your valuable time learning it. Just because Vietnamese has 80million people doesn't mean that we have to start learning it Hindi is spoken by a lot of people, but most of the people who speak it are considered to be in the lower echelons of society. The Indians themselves prefer to use English whenever they can. Just go to the Indian government websites (for example, the one for the President of India), and you will be hard pressed to find any good info in Hindi. Fact: Hindi is useless unless you have a cultural/personal attachment to that part of India and the people there 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||||||||
| nissimb Tetraglot Groupie India tenjikuyamato.blogsp Joined 6422 days ago 79 posts - 102 votes Speaks: Marathi*, Hindi, English, Japanese Studies: Korean, Esperanto, Indonesian | Message 58 of 151 18 December 2008 at 5:45am | IP Logged | |||||||||||
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I was trying my best to keep away from this thread, but few distorted comments about India and Indian culture left me with no choice.
When living conditions are high and every new day is not just another fight to survive, then you have the time to create a culture that a random foreign language learner might find interesting. I would not waste my time in listing contributions of Indian culture to the world. Instead, I am giving below, some quotes about India and Indian culture from some well known Westerners (more credible in Western eyes?) "We owe a lot to the Indians, who taught us how to count, without which no worthwhile scientific discovery could have been made!" Albert Einstein "If there is one place on the face of earth where all the dreams of living men have found a home from the very earliest days when man began the dream of existence, it is India!" French scholar Romaine Rolland "India is the cradle of the human race, the birthplace of human speech, the mother of history, the grandmother of legend, and the great grand mother of tradition. Our most valuable and most astrictive materials in the history of man are treasured up in India only!" Mark Twain "So far as I am able to judge, nothing has been left undone, either by man or nature, to make India the most extraordinary country that the sun visits on his rounds. Nothing seems to have been forgotten, nothing overlooked." Mark Twain "She (India) has left indelible imprints on one fourth of the human race in the course of a long succession of centuries. She has the right to reclaim ... her place amongst the great nations summarizing and symbolizing the spirit of humanity. From Persia to the Chinese sea, from the icy regions of Siberia to Islands of Java and Borneo, India has propagated her beliefs, her tales, and her civilization!" Sylvia Levi "If I were asked under what sky the human mind has most fully developed some of its choicest gifts, has most deeply pondered on the greatest problems of life, and has found solutions, I should point to India" Max Mueller "India was the mother of our race and Sanskrit the mother of Europe's languages. She was the mother of our philosophy, mother through the Arabs, of much of our mathematics, mother through Buddha, of the ideals embodied in Christianity, mother through village communities of self-government and democracy. Mother India is in many ways the mother of us all." Will Durant "In India, I found a race of mortals living upon the Earth, but not adhering to it, inhabiting cities, but not being fixed to them, possessing everything, but possessed by nothing" Apollonius Tyanaeus quotes (Neo-Pythagorean) Just think about how much of africans and indians live. It really is no surprice why african and indian languages are not on top of everyones list. If majority of Indians were just trying to survive every day, Nokia would not have sold their products in India and "created wealth" Also, it does not help to create interest in the more exotic languages that most african countries and even India are administrated with a european language. India is divided into states just like the US. At the national level, India is governed using a combination of English and Hindi (in parliament, supreme court etc.). At the state level, India is governed with a combination of English and 21 other Indian languages (in state legislative asseblies, state courts etc.) 4 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||||||||
| Oleg Triglot Groupie Russian FederationRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5837 days ago 57 posts - 95 votes Speaks: Russian*, Polish, English Studies: Spanish, French, Italian | Message 59 of 151 18 December 2008 at 6:47am | IP Logged | |||||||||||
And the weight of a language depends on the culture created by the people that speak this language. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||||||||
| Juan M. Senior Member Colombia Joined 5907 days ago 460 posts - 597 votes | Message 60 of 151 18 December 2008 at 7:11am | IP Logged | |||||||||||
I was about to mention this. If you believe India's contributions are irrelevant, just go ahead and try to do linear algebra using Roman numerals. ;-) The highest peaks of human imagination have often been reached in this veritable land of wonders. Sadly though, for some of the human products of our modern civilization, greatness is not measured by the conquests of the mind and spirit, but by the size of your SUVs. Edited by JuanM on 18 December 2008 at 7:12am 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||||||||
| Cainntear Pentaglot Senior Member Scotland linguafrankly.blogsp Joined 6019 days ago 4399 posts - 7687 votes Speaks: Lowland Scots, English*, French, Spanish, Scottish Gaelic Studies: Catalan, Italian, German, Irish, Welsh | Message 61 of 151 18 December 2008 at 8:07am | IP Logged | |||||||||||
I'd go further -- I'd say that "rich" countries are actually poorer in terms of culture. We produce lots of "cultural" items such as music, fiction etc, but little of it lasts. We ignore our traditional stories in favour of following a superpowered girl's teenage angst as she battles soulless demons that really are nice people some of the time (despite being soulless demons). We ignore our traditional songs and instead give money to people who write bad poetry about having lots of money. Nah... we don't have culture. 5 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||||||||
| frenkeld Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 6951 days ago 2042 posts - 2719 votes Speaks: Russian*, English Studies: German | Message 62 of 151 18 December 2008 at 9:44am | IP Logged | |||||||||||
You two may be talking about two different issues. There is cumulative cultural heritage and then there is the current output. Some language learners may be more interested in the heritage, some base their language choices based on the current situation.
In a thread that advocates learning Hindi over Italian, making the case by the fact that the positional system and the concept of zero were invented in India is rather ironic. Italy was the cradle of Renaissance, which included mathematics and science. Galileo's language, anyone?
Nokias (and SUV's) is all well and good, but there is still plenty of crushing poverty in India. Anyone who has visited that country knows it.
The problem for Hindi, as far as I can tell, is that many Indian intellectuals write in English instead of their own language, reducing the potential cultural output in Hindi and other Indian languages. Edited by frenkeld on 18 December 2008 at 10:29am 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||||||||
| .automne Diglot Groupie Norway Joined 5836 days ago 56 posts - 57 votes Speaks: Norwegian*, English Studies: French | Message 63 of 151 18 December 2008 at 9:54am | IP Logged | |||||||||||
Yes...because only sitting in a glade in the middle of the forest while chanting traditional hymns and banging on a shaman drum is culture... :-) Besides, you are only describing a part of mainstream culture. Why? How about digging a bit deeper and finding all the really innovative and amazing art being created? If you do that and still don't find anything that interests you, well, then I think the problem lies with you, sir, not culture. On topic: If learning about some exotic culture is your main objective, then I don't think spending years learning its language is the most efficient way to go about it. 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||||||||
| Mikko Newbie Finland Joined 6136 days ago 15 posts - 16 votes Speaks: Finnish* | Message 64 of 151 18 December 2008 at 10:16am | IP Logged | |||||||||||
Maya_star17 and nissimb, thank you for commenting. I was/am perfectly aware of all of your remarks and you are both missing the point. What I said was:
It is the contemporary culture that is the decisive issue. The culture of the elites hundreds or even thousands of years a go is not enough to raise the interest of most people if the culture of the masses today is boring and/or appalling and/or nonexistent. For example, look at the "Music & languages" thread. What are people posting there? It is practicaly all contemporary music, not hundreds of years old folklore, how ever fascinating it may be. To apply an old wisdom: "a culture is as interesting as its latest achievement".
This has nothing to do with anything, but the fact is that there are millions of people out there who have access to a mobile phone but not clean water. And millions more who regulary use them but do not know where their next meal is coming from. 1 person has voted this message useful |
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