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Popular misconceptions about languages? | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Cultural Experiences in Foreign Languages |  | |
| elvisrules Tetraglot Senior Member BelgiumRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5469 days ago 286 posts - 390 votes  Speaks: French, English*, Dutch, Flemish Studies: Lowland Scots, Japanese, German | Message 65 of 100 06 February 2010 at 7:54pm | IP Logged | |||||
All right sorry, I skipped over the quotation-marks. I did a quick Google about Sami/Eskimo languages and words for snow and found this. I think it answers the questions. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| zooplah Diglot Senior Member United States zooplah.farvista.net Joined 6368 days ago 100 posts - 116 votes Speaks: English*, Esperanto Studies: German | Message 66 of 100 07 February 2010 at 5:43pm | IP Logged | |||||
Like someone said about Latino Sine Flexione (Latin without Inflections), "there's no grammar like no grammar." :) 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Astrophel Tetraglot Senior Member United States Joined 5732 days ago 157 posts - 345 votes Speaks: English*, Latin, German, Spanish Studies: Russian, Cantonese, Polish, Sanskrit, Cherokee | Message 67 of 100 07 February 2010 at 7:44pm | IP Logged | |||||
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To be perfectly honest I thought Flemish and Dutch were different languages until a few weeks ago when I read differently on this forum. This is all after befriending a native Flemish speaker, hearing stories from my German teacher about her studies in Belgium, and having a friend who moved to Belgium. Never once was Flemish equated with Dutch; they were always mentioned as if they were separate languages, with the former spoken in Belgium and the latter in the Netherlands. The names sound nothing alike, they're spoken in different countries, and I overestimated the influence of French on Flemish. I knew they were close, to be sure, but I figured it was similar to the difference between Spanish and Portuguese.
Unless someone specifically tells you that Flemish and Dutch are the same thing, it's a pretty easy mistake to make. I don't know of even ONE other language that's spoken in multiple countries and has different names in each. I'm honestly curious how political issues haven't erupted over which is the more correct name for the language - "Flemish" or "Dutch". 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| Chung Diglot Senior Member Joined 7156 days ago 4228 posts - 8259 votes 20 sounds Speaks: English*, French Studies: Polish, Slovak, Uzbek, Turkish, Korean, Finnish | Message 68 of 100 07 February 2010 at 9:09pm | IP Logged | |||||
Have you heard of the case of Serbo-Croatian vs. Bosnian/Croatian/Montenegrin/Serbian? 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| elvisrules Tetraglot Senior Member BelgiumRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5469 days ago 286 posts - 390 votes Speaks: French, English*, Dutch, Flemish Studies: Lowland Scots, Japanese, German | Message 69 of 100 07 February 2010 at 9:17pm | IP Logged | |||||
Well a lot of people confuse Belgian Dutch and Flemish. Standard Belgian Dutch, the only official language of Flanders, is very similar to the Standard Dutch of the Netherlands. The differences between the two are probably about the same as between British English and American English. Belgian Dutch is the official language in Flanders, which is written but pretty much only spoken by newscasters, professors and children in certain regions. In Flanders, Flemish can usually mean two things: -The spoken language mostly used in Flanders, which is a mixture of the Flemish dialects, with some French influence, and with a pronunciation close to Standard Dutch. -Any of a number of Flemish dialects, the main groups of which are: Flemish Brabants, Antwerpian, West Flemish, East Flemish and Limburgish. Netherlanders often confuse this and use the terms Belgian Dutch and Flemish interchangeably, which can be confusing and is not a reflection of the linguistic reality. Flemish has no official recognition: the official language of Flanders is Dutch. Even in Belgium it's confusing as French-speaking Belgians also use the terms Flemish and Dutch interchangeably.
Romanian/Moldovan, Malaysian/Indonesian, Serbian/Croatian, Machu/Xibe etc. This of course brings up the old argument of language/dialect... Edited by elvisrules on 07 February 2010 at 9:42pm 3 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| tractor Tetraglot Senior Member Norway Joined 5453 days ago 1349 posts - 2292 votes Speaks: Norwegian*, English, Spanish, Catalan Studies: French, German, Latin | Message 70 of 100 07 February 2010 at 9:28pm | IP Logged | |||||
More examples: Catalan and Valencian Romanian and Moldovan 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| Astrophel Tetraglot Senior Member United States Joined 5732 days ago 157 posts - 345 votes Speaks: English*, Latin, German, Spanish Studies: Russian, Cantonese, Polish, Sanskrit, Cherokee | Message 71 of 100 07 February 2010 at 11:34pm | IP Logged | |||||
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I know about Catalan/Valencian and Romanian/Moldavan and thought about them before I posted, but those actually seem like counterexamples to me. Valencians insist their language is actually separate so it should have a different name, and Moldovans insist their language is actually Romanian and shouldn't have a different name. But Dutch and Flemish insist on separate names for what they agree are the same language, which is just confusing. Serbian and Croatian are at least using different scripts so I can sort of see the logic there. Malaysian and Indonesian is a good comparison though.
elvisrules, you're saying that Belgian Dutch (the official language of Flanders) actually IS a separate language from Flemish, but that "Flemish" and "Dutch" are often used interchangeably by Netherlanders and French-speaking Belgians, right? 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| elvisrules Tetraglot Senior Member BelgiumRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5469 days ago 286 posts - 390 votes Speaks: French, English*, Dutch, Flemish Studies: Lowland Scots, Japanese, German | Message 72 of 100 08 February 2010 at 12:03am | IP Logged | |||||
Because as I explained above, the spoken language in Flanders is often tussentaal (the mix of Flemish dialects, with French influence and pronunciation similar to Dutch) or a Flemish dialect. That is what is meant by Flemish. Of course, there's no real line between what is Belgian Dutch and Flemish tussentaal. Also, not everyone agrees that they are the same language. There are some who recognize Flemish as a seperate language. Flemings will usually tell you that Flemish is just a dialect of Dutch. Netherlanders use the term Flemish to refer to Belgian Dutch, Flemings don't. The terminology confusion lies in the history of the language in Flanders. It is only since the 60s that the consititution specifically mentions 'Nederlands' and not 'Vlaams'. It was a bilingual (mainly French) educational system in Flanders until then. Standard Belgian Dutch is based on the Standard Netherlands Dutch which is based on the spoken language of Holland.
No, Belgian Dutch and Dutch (of the Netherlands) are considered different varieties of the same language and are both regulated by the Taal Unie (language union). Since this year, standard vocabulary specific to the Netherlands or Belgium, but not to the other region, is indicated in the official Van Dale Groot Woordenboek as 'BN' (Belgisch Nederlands) or 'NN' (Nederlands Nederlands). Words common to both (the large majority), are not annotated. Previously, only Belgian words were annotated, and this move was made to give greater independance to Belgian Dutch. Here in Flanders, Dutch is usually only called Belgian Dutch when one wants to make a distinction, otherwise it is simply called Dutch. Edited by elvisrules on 08 February 2010 at 12:14am 1 person has voted this message useful |
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