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Is Tagalog dying? | ||
Tags: Tagalog | Language Importance | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Specific Languages |  | |
| JFman00 Triglot Newbie United States Joined 5324 days ago 20 posts - 21 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish, French Studies: Russian | Message 25 of 56 16 March 2011 at 5:56am | IP Logged | |||||
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My goal in learning languages is to be able to communicate with more people, and Tagalog
in its current form doesn't hinder me from doing so. I think "destroyed" is a pretty strong word for how the language has changed over the centuries. At least it's still around. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| irrationale Tetraglot Senior Member China Joined 5845 days ago 669 posts - 1023 votes  2 sounds Speaks: English*, Spanish, Mandarin, Tagalog Studies: Ancient Greek, Japanese | Message 26 of 56 16 March 2011 at 8:34am | IP Logged | |||||
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http://www.scribd.com/doc/4717244/Philippines-Language-Plann ing
This is a paper I recently found about the language situation that answers many of my more specific questions on this issue. The main conclusion of the paper is that For Filipino to be fully cultivated, it cannot remain only the language of the social sciences; it must be expanded to serve the natural sciences as well. Perhaps, then, once English has been mastered, it can return to partial use, even in the social sciences and not only in mathematics and the natural sciences, so that there will be a better balance between Filipino and English to cultivate the ideal of a balanced bilingual. Those in the system have aimed for this objective without necessarily attaining this ideal. This is my personal ideal for the Philippines; true bilingualism, not semi lingual-ism. The difference is that you retain more words, more language. It is a win win situation, it just needs to be implemented. At the moment, the author states that the current situation is that the vast majority are not capable of higher level cognitive tasks in Filipino. JPman00; Code switching, language borrowing in the situation is natural and I understand that. What I want here is just to retain the language being lost to English, not necessarily halt all word borrowing. It is a win win situation; more language. If there is an English that doesn't have a tagalog equivalent, hey great, borrow it or coin a new term (unlikely). It happens all the time in languages and it's how they grow. But otherwise (if there is a Tagalog equivalent), how about retaining the Tagalog word and not letting it die off? What's wrong with that? I am not arguing against communication, I am arguing for more communication in more ways using both languages. 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| Raчraч Ŋuɲa Triglot Senior Member New Zealand Joined 5613 days ago 154 posts - 233 votes Speaks: Bikol languages*, Tagalog, EnglishC1 Studies: Spanish, Russian, Japanese | Message 27 of 56 18 March 2011 at 7:17am | IP Logged | |||||
Ok, I think I got it. You were referring here to Jejemon. Here is a wikipedia entry explaining what it is. This site explains how to write and read a jejemon text. You're not the only one who doesn't like this style of writing. And this as well. Edited by Raчraч Ŋuɲa on 18 March 2011 at 7:25am 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Raчraч Ŋuɲa Triglot Senior Member New Zealand Joined 5613 days ago 154 posts - 233 votes Speaks: Bikol languages*, Tagalog, EnglishC1 Studies: Spanish, Russian, Japanese | Message 28 of 56 18 March 2011 at 8:55am | IP Logged | |||||
Even if there are Tagalog equivalents, they won't be used since they have their own spheres, and English is encroaching into Tagalog. Tagalog technical terms are not taught in schools, since the sciences and mathematics are always in English, and there are NO Tagalog technical terms, as far as I know. Until and unless these subjects are taught in the local languages, then this situation will continue. The scenario of using English words a bit here and there is rather unappealing, due to several factors: phonologies, orthographies and morphologies of Philippine languages make word borrowing problematic. Phonology/Orthography: Borrowing English words and adopting them to local phonologies or orthographies looks and sounds weird following current language policy. As you know already, Philippine languages have more phonetic orthographies in contrast to English. For example, in General Rule III, borrowed English words are more or less to be spelled in their original form, and not adopted. Now, there is a conundrum here. How do they pronounce them? Do you pronounce them like an American or like a Tagalog or Bisayan? If they pronounce them like American English, there is disconnect with their phonologies: they have to suddenly change their phonological inventories to add f,v,z,th, consonant clusters and 12 vowels. If they pronounce it like Tagalog or Bisayan, then there is disconnect with their orthographies and what is taught at schools at English classes. For example, if they borrow "post office, affidavit, zigzag, thinner", do they say it like "pos opis, apidabit, sigsag, tiner,"? Which one gives way? Already, they can't write it like the latter. Morphology: On top of that, Philippine languages have infixation and reduplication. Which is the proper conjugation and spelling of "stalemate", "flashlight" and "preview": nag-i-stalemate, nag-e-estelmeyt, nag-i-istelmeyt (putting someone to a stalemate); f-in-a-flashlight-an, p-in-a-plaslayt-an, fl-in-a-flashlight-an, pl-in-a-plaslayt-an (shining a torch on something); p-in-i-previewpreview, pr-in-i-previewpreview, p-in-i-pribyupribyu, pr-in-i-pribyupribyu (making a short preview)? And of course the complicating factor of social acceptance. For educated Filipinos, correct English pronunciation is a shibboleth, and a matter of shame or pride. If the topic is about natural sciences, and even in social sciences, people will use English terms, because not only they sound more educated, but the educated people themselves never use local equivalents due to that schooling. The elite (educated or moneyed) would appear uneducated and ridiculous if they started pronouncing it or writing it in accordance with Tagalog phonology. So, with all these problems, it's no wonder that people resort to borrowing not by word units but by phrasal and clausal units, thus Taglish. At those levels, its quite apparent and distinct which is Tagalog and which is English, and they skirt the problems I discussed above. The only group of people who use "purer" Tagalog that I've noticed are nationalists, leftists, communists or socialists, even more so than writers and poets. Edited by Raчraч Ŋuɲa on 18 March 2011 at 9:27am 6 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| psr13 Newbie United States Joined 4990 days ago 8 posts - 10 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Spanish, Mandarin, French | Message 29 of 56 20 April 2011 at 1:17am | IP Logged | |||||
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My husband grew up in the Philippines and moved here when he was about seventeen. He doesn't speak Taglish. With most people he speaks English, but with he sisters he speaks Tagalog. From the Facebook pages of family he still has there, it appears as though they don't speak Taglish. However, the family still there live in the province. My husband grew up in QC unlike the rest of the family.
Also, I don't have much faith in the English instruction they get in school. When he came to America he basically had no English skills from what I have been told. This is despite all those years of having it in school in the Philippines. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| gseki Newbie United States Joined 4698 days ago 1 posts - 1 votes | Message 30 of 56 23 June 2011 at 2:20am | IP Logged | |||||
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Tagalog is not equal to Filipino. Most Filipinos speak Filipino. If you want to find true Tagalog speaker then head to regions where the Tagalogs live.
1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| datujon Newbie Australia Joined 4823 days ago 2 posts - 2 votes Studies: Tagalog, German, Spanish, Japanese, Catalan, Malay, English* Studies: French | Message 32 of 56 15 July 2011 at 11:40am | IP Logged | |||||
I'm glad you liked the language and found it beautiful. I wouldn't say "dying" as much as I would say either it's "no different" or that it's "evolving". The same way English evolved from Old English or Modern Greek from Ancient Greek. Think of Filipino or today's Tagalog as "Modern Tagalog". IMO, nowadays the words "Tagalog" and "Filipino" have been interchanged too often much like "Spanish" and "Castillian". I do agree with you that some words in Tagalog are no longer used and use either the English or Spanish equivalent. Here are a few examples but I may be wrong Tagalog - Loanword manggagamot - doktor paaralan - eskuwelahan pamatasan - unibersidad talatinigan - diksiyonario Before English and Spanish, there are loanwords in Tagalog from languages like Malay, Min Nan and Sanskrit. I'm personally disappointed that some words aren't used at all or seldomly. Examples are "Paalam" (Goodbye!!) or "Maligayang Pagdating" (Welcome!!). Do not stop learning Tagalog if you like it. There are a lot of loanwords in a lot of languages especially in English. 1 person has voted this message useful |
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