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Kanewai 2015: Team Caesar | ||
Tags: Super Challenge | Catalan | Ancient Greek | Turkish | Polyglot | Arabic | Total Annihilation Challenge (TAC) | Italian | Japanese | French | Spanish | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Language Learning Log |  | |
| kanewai Triglot Senior Member United States justpaste.it/kanewai Joined 4679 days ago 1386 posts - 3054 votes  Speaks: English*, French, Marshallese Studies: Italian, Spanish | Message 57 of 331 11 March 2012 at 6:48am | IP Logged |
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Arabic makes me want to cry. I try so hard, but the ground keeps shifting under me.
So Assimil Tunisien conjugates verbs a bit differently than the Maghrebi Book, but then doesn't follow their own verb charts with half the examples they use, they don't explain the exceptions, and then they give you the thirty most important verbs, but there is no hint for which pattern of conjugation any of them follow. I was going to go back to the Maghrebi book, but some of their exercises uses words that they haven't defined yet - and this book lacks a dictionary or answer key or even translations of the text. I quit. _________________________________________ I stumbled on Italian this weekend also. I can't seem to do Pimsleur II, Lesson 18. There's not even anything new ... my brain just refuses to grasp it, and I get about 30% of the responses. And I remember hitting this same point in Spanish; there was a point where the "Pimsleur Method" stopped being effective. With Spanish I did some normal text book work, went back, and was able to finish Pimsleur. I wonder if it's inherent in the course; they build a good base, but not quite good enough to maintain over two full courses. Or rather, you need to do outside work to be able to finish both levels. Luckily I have FSI Italian FAST as a backup, so I'll work on it this weekend. I also started re-watching Il Gattopardo (The Leopard), which I think is one of the greatest movies of all time. It's fun being able to actually understand some of the dialogue. I've decided to make it an Italian weekend. Or maybe even an Italian week. Edited by kanewai on 11 March 2012 at 7:05am 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| Kerrie Senior Member United States justpaste.it/Kerrie2 Joined 5185 days ago 1232 posts - 1740 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Spanish | Message 58 of 331 11 March 2012 at 11:13pm | IP Logged |
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Have you tried to find any native speakers of the dialect you're learning? I know there are lots of sites to hook up with people for conversations and stuff, but I've found helpful people on livemocha. You can do a search for Arabic speakers in Tunisia. They sort by your last login, so the people you come up the first few pages are active. If you find someone with a higher teacher score, that usually means they are happy to help. If you could find a few native speakers of that dialect, at least they might be able to help answer some questions. Might be worth a shot, anyways.
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| Hendrek Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 4672 days ago 152 posts - 210 votes Speaks: English*, Italian Studies: Persian | Message 59 of 331 12 March 2012 at 12:04am | IP Logged |
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Can't help with the Arabic as I've never so much as glanced at the language beyond loan words during my attempts at Farsi.
However, with Italian, I did all 3 levels of Pimsleur pretty early on. About halfway through the second set though is I think when I started really supplementing with other materials, above all Assimil. Beyond the second Pimsleur, I was really just using it for pronunciation practice more than learning useful vocabulary and grammar. For whatever reason, I didn't use FSI for Italian. 3 other books I would recommend would be, Italian Made Simple (VERY useful for me starting out), Colloquial Italian (the old 1924 or 1957 reprint one) and the Cortina Method. These were very cheap online; I found the made simple series for one dollar each. Colloquial Italian is really amazing, as it's such a tiny book, yet every time I glance through it -- even now -- I seem to learn something new. Finally, I think every weekend should be an Italian weekend. Hope it's going well. Edited by Hendrek on 12 March 2012 at 12:06am 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| Kerrie Senior Member United States justpaste.it/Kerrie2 Joined 5185 days ago 1232 posts - 1740 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Spanish | Message 60 of 331 12 March 2012 at 12:14am | IP Logged |
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I have all of the Cortina Method books and most of the Made Simple books, and I like the way they are laid out, too. I haven't looked at the Italian Made Simple, but the Cortina book is really archaic in some respects. They still introduce the egli, essi, and esse forms. I've found some really odd vocabulary in it as well. I like the setup of the method, though, as long as you go into it being aware that some of it's archaic.
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| kanewai Triglot Senior Member United States justpaste.it/kanewai Joined 4679 days ago 1386 posts - 3054 votes Speaks: English*, French, Marshallese Studies: Italian, Spanish | Message 61 of 331 13 March 2012 at 9:41pm | IP Logged |
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Hendrek: I liked the Italian weekend so much, I think I'll do it again!
Kerrie: I haven't tried finding live speakers yet. I always seem to avoid that last step. But my frustrations with Arabic go beyond that. I'm just not seeing much return on the investment of time and energy that I've put into the language. I'm starting to think that there's just not enough good materials out there to do self-study. Or that there even are any good materials out there - the best programs in Arabic are still marginal. Maybe if I were to go at it full time ... but I don't have enough time. And part of the problem is, I no longer trust the books I'm using. I finished watching Il Gattopardo last night. I'm still in awe of the beauty and power of that movie. And my six weeks of Italian at 30" a day actually helped me to understand some of the nuances of the dialogue. Not a lot, for sure, but enough to make the experience even more rewarding. I'm now up to lesson 21 of Pimsleur II, and Lesson 10 of FSI FAST (out of 34). I'll give it a few more days, and then I really do want to start focusing on Catalan. I also restarted Using French; I wanted something that was a little bit more active than just reading. I also have the time and energy for it now that I've set the Arabic texts aside! 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| kanewai Triglot Senior Member United States justpaste.it/kanewai Joined 4679 days ago 1386 posts - 3054 votes Speaks: English*, French, Marshallese Studies: Italian, Spanish | Message 62 of 331 19 March 2012 at 5:49am | IP Logged |
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I finished Pimsleur II Italian, and FSI FAST Lesson 11, on Friday. I figure that gives
me a solid 60 hours + of studying since January. I've read that most people need 75 hours to reach CEFR A-1, and that seems about right - I figure a couple days in Rome and I'll be comfortable at that level. Now it's Catalan's turn. I did some basic stuff about ten days ago, but didn't really focus until this weekend. I only have one book, and it requires me to actually sit down and study - it feels so old-fashioned! Realistically, I'm aiming for having a nice accent and being able to speak very basic phrases. But ... I still have a fantasy that I can do more! After putting so much time into French, Spanish, and Italian this past year, Catalan almost seems familiar. I might not reach A1 in record time, but I intend to make a go at it. 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| kanewai Triglot Senior Member United States justpaste.it/kanewai Joined 4679 days ago 1386 posts - 3054 votes Speaks: English*, French, Marshallese Studies: Italian, Spanish | Message 63 of 331 21 March 2012 at 11:05pm | IP Logged |
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3-Month Self Evaluation
I fly out on Sunday, and am in over-drive mode at work, so this is might be my last chance to do a comprehensive post for the next month. I'm sure I'll still do small comments, though! Overall, I am really happy with the progress I've made. There's been a bit of trial and error, and a few dead ends, but I've made pretty solid progress overall. My big issue now is under-estimating the time needed to study properly. For future planning I have to remind myself: You have to put in the time! You have to put in the time! You have to put in the time! Like a mantra. French I started studying regularly 10 months ago, have logged about 300 hours, and think that I'm at a solid A2, with B1 in reach. I have ten days in Tunisia and six in Paris coming up, so I should easily reach a B1 level, & perhaps have a shot at B2. I thought I'd reach this level by the end of December 2011. Silly me. I want to keep moving forward in French. I'll still need lots of work to push onto the mythical C1 level - according to some sources another 200 hours of study. I will need advice on how to do this! I learn better with formal programs than with more free-form studies; I'll finish FSI Volume II and Using French, but I'm not sure what should come next. One great bonus is that I'm comfortable using French-based Assimil texts, which opens up whole new worlds of possibilities. Arabic 7 months, 100 hours, and I still suck. But the available courses also suck. In retrospect, 100 hours of study isn't really enough time to reach even a basic level, even though I had a head start, knew the alphabet, & spoke a little. It turns out that my Maghrébi Book has a second volume with a glossary and answer key. That would have helped immensely. Assimil Tunisien wasn't very useful for learning, although it might come in handy as a phrasebook. As for standard Arabic, I hit a wall with FSI around Chapter 10, and a couple years ago I took "Teach Yourself" about as far as I could. And I hate Assimil Arabic. So I am reluctantly putting Arabic on hold, and don't have plans to tackle it again in the near future. I'll go back to it in a flash, though, if Assimil redoes L'arabe and brings it up to the standard of their other books, or if their new Perfectionnement Arabe gets excellent reviews. Spanish I haven't started on Spanish this year, but it's still on the agenda. In 2011 I did about 65 hours of study, and spent 21 days in México. I still don't speak well, and need a lot more work. A lot of the guys on my canoe team are from Latin countries, and a few others are bilingual. Spanish and Japanese are the two foreign languages I hear most, so it makes sense for me to focus on this once my French is at a more solid level. Italian 3 months, 65 hours of study, and I love this language. I've been picking it up at a very fast rate, probably thanks to my French and limited Spanish. I was doing so well that I put some of the other languages aside so I could just focus on Italian for a few weeks. I'll be solo in Rome for seven days, I'm renting a room from a guy who doesn't speak English, and I will be perfectly happy taking an hour or two out of my day, sitting in a park, and working on another lesson. I might be quite far along after all that! Even I just wrote that I would be going back to Spanish later this summer, but I might just decide to order Assimil's Italian book and do that instead. Català Two weeks, 10 hours. Català, I sacrificed you to focus on Italian. Ho sento. You are far too pretty a language to be treated like that. I thought I could focus on you and you alone this week, but life is so busy right now. I don't have a chance at reaching any kind of decent level in Catalan in the next four days, and I don't even know how much Catalan I'll be exposed to in Barcelona. I'll be with an American friend part of the time who is fluent in Spanish, and we're renting a room from a German guy. I'll put in a few more hours, and see where I get. I won't be touching the other languages for the rest of the month (I promise!). I like that I am now comfortable with the sounds, rhythm, and appearance of Catalan. It doesn't look as 'foreign' to me now, which is a good first step. My initial impulse was to sound it out like Spanish or Italian, but it flows much softer. For those who are considering Català: I love the way it sounds. Someone else on the forums listed it as one of the 'ugly' languages. I beg to differ. I would love to revisit it one day. And the new TY Complete Catalan is very well done. It only has two hours of audio, and I wish it had more. Otherwise, the course is a winner. The Rest If I can't have Arabic, then I want another non-Western language on my docket! The current main contenders are Japanese, Russian, or Turkish. I won't have time to do any serious study, or aim for fluency at this time; I just want to slowly work my way through Assimil, and get a good feel for the language (or, for Turkish, to move on to the next level). 2 persons have voted this message useful | |
| Kerrie Senior Member United States justpaste.it/Kerrie2 Joined 5185 days ago 1232 posts - 1740 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Spanish | Message 64 of 331 21 March 2012 at 11:15pm | IP Logged |
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I hope you have a chance to put your French and Italian to great use while you're there!
Have a great trip! =) 1 person has voted this message useful |
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