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Trying to be too clever | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : General discussion |  | |
| beano Diglot Senior Member United KingdomRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 4410 days ago 1049 posts - 2152 votes  Speaks: English*, German Studies: Russian, Serbian, Hungarian | Message 1 of 74 23 October 2013 at 9:50am | IP Logged | ||
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One thing you notice when learning a language is that as you make progress with your speaking, it doesn't actually get any easier because natives simply ramp up the level of difficulty. Which of course is a good place to be, but it can leave you feeling like you've reached a false summit during a climbing expedition.
I also think that learners have a tendency to make things unnecessarily hard for themselves. You've learned all these fancy verbs and vocabulary items and of course you want to try them out, this is natural. But it can then lead to fumbling for words, interfering with the level of fluency you have already built, and perhaps even phrasing a sentence in such a way that a native speaker wouldn't normally be bothered to do, at least not in everyday conversation. Is it sometimes better just to batter on at a base level and concentrate on flow rather than aim for too much sophistication? Edited by beano on 23 October 2013 at 9:51am 3 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| tarvos Super Polyglot Winner TAC 2012 Senior Member China likeapolyglot.wordpr Joined 4495 days ago 5310 posts - 9399 votes Speaks: Dutch*, English, Swedish, French, Russian, German, Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Afrikaans Studies: Greek, Modern Hebrew, Spanish, Portuguese, Czech, Korean, Esperanto, Finnish | Message 2 of 74 23 October 2013 at 10:41am | IP Logged | ||
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Irrelevant question in my opinion. This is just "I am scared of getting it wrong". I
started studying a new language I don't know jack shit about, of course I'm going to get it wrong about 7000 times, out of which 4000 times you won't notice, 2500 times you won't care, 450 times you correct me, and the other 50 are just funny. Bang, done, moved on. Trying to be clever is a good thing because you are pushing the envelope. You are ambitious. You want to make progress and not stand still. The only way to do that is to not give a flying rat's ass about how many mistakes you make. If you do they'll correct you at some point - if not, you got it right, VICTORY IS OURS. If I've reached a false summit, that's okay. Then I'll just take a rest and admire the view, yeah? Then I will climb some more later. 16 persons have voted this message useful | |||
 Iversen Super Polyglot Moderator Denmark berejst.dk Joined 6491 days ago 9078 posts - 16473 votes Speaks: Danish*, French, English, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, Swedish, Esperanto, Romanian, Catalan Studies: Afrikaans, Greek, Norwegian, Russian, Serbian, Icelandic, Latin, Irish, Lowland Scots, Indonesian, Polish, Croatian Personal Language Map | Message 3 of 74 23 October 2013 at 12:34pm | IP Logged | ||
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I do see a point in Beano's question, but at the same time I also agree with Tarvos. The point is that you will make errors, and that once you have decided that your language is good enough for conversation you shouldn't let those errors block you - any language learner must learn to be somewhat tough in that respect. But you can be quite ambitious in the way you express yourself in the new language without trying to make extremely complicated constructions or use marginal words which even the natives would be hesitant to use. There must be a limit for your experiments in a language which you haven't mastered yet.
Said this reckless experimenter and dabbler. 3 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Bao Diglot Senior Member Germany tinyurl.com/pe4kqe5 Joined 5554 days ago 2256 posts - 4046 votes Speaks: German*, English Studies: French, Spanish, Japanese, Mandarin | Message 4 of 74 23 October 2013 at 4:22pm | IP Logged | ||
When I know I've learnt a word, and know what it means, and know it means exactly what I want to say, then it takes more mental effort to *describe* what I want to say instead of concentrating to *remember* that particular word. I can do it, and I will if I can't remember the word, but first I will try to remember. It's not a conscious decision. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Duke100782 Bilingual Diglot Senior Member Philippines https://talktagalog.Registered users can see my Skype Name Joined 4276 days ago 172 posts - 240 votes Speaks: English*, Tagalog* Studies: Spanish, Mandarin | Message 5 of 74 23 October 2013 at 4:47pm | IP Logged | ||
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Life is too short. The time for half-measures is over. I've got there out there and start speaking! I think the
only way to really learn something quick is by using it. I'm not going to learn Mandarin just by talking to my laptop or iPad. I'll only learn speaking by speaking, speaking and speaking. I have to keep trying to use my new sentences patterns, expressions and vocabulary. Mistakes, I'll make them, but I'll keep on improving. I'll keep on studying and applying what I learn. The road to fluency! March on! March on! 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| beano Diglot Senior Member United KingdomRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 4410 days ago 1049 posts - 2152 votes Speaks: English*, German Studies: Russian, Serbian, Hungarian | Message 6 of 74 23 October 2013 at 5:08pm | IP Logged | ||
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Actually, I'm all for getting out there and babbling away with natives at every opportunity. Making mistakes is all part of the learning experience and most of the time natives neither notice nor care.
The point I was trying to make is that sometimes a meat-and-potatoes approach allows you to speak more fluently rather than mentally grasping mentally for fancier words and expressions which may or may not come. By all means experiment with more exotic vocabulary and more precise verbs but it should not be to the detriment of your delivery. Better to sprinkle them here and there rather than risk stumbling through a speech when you already have the capability to plough through it. 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| tarvos Super Polyglot Winner TAC 2012 Senior Member China likeapolyglot.wordpr Joined 4495 days ago 5310 posts - 9399 votes Speaks: Dutch*, English, Swedish, French, Russian, German, Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Afrikaans Studies: Greek, Modern Hebrew, Spanish, Portuguese, Czech, Korean, Esperanto, Finnish | Message 7 of 74 23 October 2013 at 6:27pm | IP Logged | ||
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I wouldn't do it in an exam situation, no.
But I'm not often in them. Otherwise don't care. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Cavesa Triglot Senior Member Czech Republic Joined 4797 days ago 3277 posts - 6779 votes Speaks: Czech*, FrenchC2, EnglishC1 Studies: Spanish, German, Italian | Message 8 of 74 23 October 2013 at 7:46pm | IP Logged | ||
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I can several interesting points there:
1.The thing about learners making it too difficult for themselves by trying to use everything they learnt at all costs. This is actually true that learners often use much more complicated (and therefore more risky AND less natural) structures than the natives do. The only cure is exposure in as large doses as possible. If you don't have enough opportunities with the natives (or you want to get ready for them and to just waste time crying "oh, I don't have a native at hand so I cannot learn"), use real native sources. Books and tv shows representing normal language can teach you a lot about what is really being used in everyday constructions. 2.Well, it's true that there is a point when the natives go a level up. And it is awesome, in my opinion. It is demanding but you can keep up much better than you would have guessed if you don't panic. :-) Courage is half the ability here. 3.Enjoy the false summit with a beer. Most things look more positive with a beer. :-) And some people start speaking even better after a beer or two. (But the effect tends to dissipate fast after some more beer, just like the ability to form meaningful sentences in the native language :-) ) 7 persons have voted this message useful |
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