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Rosetta Stone Q&A (Former Employee) | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Language Programs, Books & Tapes |  | |
 emk Diglot Moderator United States Joined 5560 days ago 2615 posts - 8806 votes  Speaks: English*, FrenchB2 Studies: Spanish, Ancient Egyptian Personal Language Map | Message 65 of 109 15 June 2012 at 2:12pm | IP Logged | |||||
You know, you and Random review have an interesting point here. I've seen a very similar sort of post on other language learning sites. It goes like this: 1. Novice language learner asks a simple question. 2. A new poster shows up, saying 2 or 3 minor critical things about RS. 3. The new poster claims some significant credentials or expertise. 4. The new poster spends several paragraphs praising RS to the sky, claiming it's a uniquely and amazingly effective product. I dunno what's actually going on here, but the pattern is repetitive enough that we could make a drinking game out of it. I actually heard some RS success stories last night, when I was speaking with the manager of Schoenhof's, a large foreign-language bookstore in Cambridge, MA. He says that he's actually seen RS work for some people, but that he usually sees them back a few weeks later, urgently looking for a good grammar book. This is actually the first time I've ever heard a RS success story from someone who wasn't either a semi-anonymous commenter or a former employee. The guy that runs Shoenhof's is a trustworthy source, despite his annoying habit of having thousands of amazing books that I can just barely restrain myself from buying. (BTW, if anybody here is ever near Harvard Square, do be sure to visit Shoenhof's. If possible, decide your budget beforehand, bring cash, and leave all your credit and debit cards safely at home. No HTLAL reader is safe in that store.) 14 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| jazzboy.bebop Senior Member Norway norwegianthroughnove Joined 5446 days ago 439 posts - 800 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Norwegian | Message 66 of 109 15 June 2012 at 4:33pm | IP Logged | |||||
Well that's Cambridge, MA added to the list of places to visit when I eventually make a trip across the Pond. Was thinking about checking out Boston and the surrounding area but this clinches it. 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| Cavesa Triglot Senior Member Czech Republic Joined 5037 days ago 3277 posts - 6779 votes Speaks: Czech*, FrenchC2, EnglishC1 Studies: Spanish, German, Italian | Message 67 of 109 15 June 2012 at 5:36pm | IP Logged | |||||
This is actually seriously wrong about the program and many other "modern at all costs" courses. Yes, there are people who learn better when they have to find everything on their own but they are just a minority (and if you are one of these Sherlock Holmes personalities, you should probably follow Serpent's advice and use a lot of native input instead of RS or any other course, you'll probably learn faster and have more fun). For vast majority of people, it is easier and faster to see the examples and know there is a rule (with exceptions) they can use and rely on, at least until the structure becomes natural to them. Thanks David, for clarification on the kinds of exercises the RS provides. It is just strange that RS presents itself so stupidly and doesn't tell the public (and show in the demo) the more useful parts of the software. Too bad for the company, there is a part of the market their product presentation obviously misses. The experienced learners are surely less numerous than the average-learner-Joe but most are willing to buy several courses from their favourite publisher, each for different language. Thanks for the facebook quote. It is not nice (even though I will give David the benefit of the doubt concerning whether it is his personal profile and opinion on us or just another marketing stream that pays his bills) but i think we all saw it in the first post of the thread. I don't agree we catched the bait, we just discussed frankly our views on RS, nothing bad about it, noone was forced to post. David, you're not the first one to say something nice of RS (there were several people who didn't find RS so bad for a product they got for free from their employer) but you cannot hold it against us that we just don't love and worship what your company sells. You weren't completely unsuccessful, several of us have looked carefully and RS website and demo because of your thread, and if you get higher salary thanks to it, I wish you to enjoy it in good health. Just don't insult people here. Most of us are quite proud to be part of a community where other people's different views are regarded so highly and where most discussions, including the heated ones, have a high standard of politeness. About Blowsetta Stone. I love the joke and I think it is childish to feel so offended by it. We all have got the freedom of speech so we can make jokes about quite anything there is, including the prime minister, the public transport, each other, any church and any commercial product on the market. Terry, who had been spoken of at the thread as well, once made a wonderful joke including four different language courses, three of which are very popular nonetheless. 11 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| Steffen Newbie Germany Joined 4999 days ago 27 posts - 63 votes Studies: German* | Message 68 of 109 16 June 2012 at 4:15pm | IP Logged | |||||
No offence intended, David. I just thought you might have underestimated the effectiveness of some of their non-Romance courses. My wording was apparently a bit off the mark. I should have said "sceptical" rather than "suspicious". Sorry about that. "Blowsetta"? Now that's a mature discussion among knowledgeable adults, isn't it? But since "Assimil" comes already equipped with an "Ass", I suppose it's only just. Just joking. I like Assimil, I like Rosetta Stone and quite a few other courses and language learning tools. I used to like this forum too, but am not so sure anymore. Too much puerile self-righteousness. Anyway, good luck on your crusade! Edited by Steffen on 16 June 2012 at 4:30pm 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| Serpent Octoglot Senior Member Russian Federation serpent-849.livejour Joined 6625 days ago 9753 posts - 15779 votes 4 sounds Speaks: Russian*, English, FinnishC1, Latin, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese Studies: Danish, Romanian, Polish, Belarusian, Ukrainian, Croatian, Slovenian, Catalan, Czech, Galician, Dutch, Swedish | Message 69 of 109 16 June 2012 at 4:34pm | IP Logged | |||||
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Where is the post by Betjeman? He said he's the same person as Steffen. I think David got confused juggling the various accounts, hehe.
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| Betjeman Groupie Germany Joined 6171 days ago 85 posts - 204 votes Speaks: German* | Message 70 of 109 16 June 2012 at 4:48pm | IP Logged | |||||
I deleted it, Serpent, and I still am the same person (Betjeman, that is, not David). Like I said, I had to set up a different account some time ago because I temporarily lost my password. I have decided not to get as involved in this topic as that previous post possibly would have got me. It's rather hopeless, as your comment perfectly illustrates. Excellent laughter, by the way, albeit a tad paranoid. I especially admire the "e" part of it. Edited by Betjeman on 16 June 2012 at 5:19pm 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| jed Newbie United States Joined 4844 days ago 12 posts - 33 votes Speaks: English* | Message 71 of 109 16 June 2012 at 5:33pm | IP Logged | |||||
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I have tried Rosetta Stone. It is okay and can be fun, but it was really expensive for what I got out of it.
Out of curiosity, I went to Amazon to see what reviewers there had to say about the Italian, Spanish and French courses published by Rosetta Stone and by Assimil (I chose these languages because some posters here seem to think that RS is best suited to Romance languages). Turns out the general public gives Assimil slightly better reviews than it gives to Rosetta Stone. Of course, it is entirely possible that only dweebs write reviews on Amazon. 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| Serpent Octoglot Senior Member Russian Federation serpent-849.livejour Joined 6625 days ago 9753 posts - 15779 votes 4 sounds Speaks: Russian*, English, FinnishC1, Latin, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese Studies: Danish, Romanian, Polish, Belarusian, Ukrainian, Croatian, Slovenian, Catalan, Czech, Galician, Dutch, Swedish | Message 72 of 109 16 June 2012 at 6:00pm | IP Logged | |||||
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Would Rosetta Stone teach me to laugh correctly in English? :)
Whether you're the same person or not, you need to realize one thing. Nobody is interested in saying bad things about Rosetta Stone just for the sake of it. I actually find it kinda sad that such a popular and expensive product teaches you so little. No, I haven't tried it. But I know how many sentences you really need if you go by this route - about 10000. You also need the attitude that an average RS customer doesn't have. It's just not enough to say "I've had good results with it", especially if you work for them or used to. Come to the multilingual room, write something in your target language, make a youtube video. We're more inclined to believe those who can prove their skills or those whose methods sound reasonable to us. I don't need youtube videos to believe that someone reached basic fluency in Spanish by going through Assimil and then watching TV shows and chatting with native speakers and reading a couple of books, even if they say this was all done within 4-5 months. If you say you've reached fluency by using RS for 5 months or even a year, I'm going to doubt anything you say. Steffen, if you are really from Germany, didn't you learn English at school for years? A lot of the members here are non-native speakers of English and we know how different it is from learning other languages. Especially in Europe, the conditions are almost as favourable as they are for an immigrant learning his new country's language. English is everywhere, in some countries even threatening the local language in the long run. Benny mentioned this too: "of course it sounds good that you can contact someone learning your native language... but how many Dutchmen are actually using RS to learn English? None!" (not a direct quote and btw I'm absolutely not a Benny fan). Finally, even if you sounded more convincing, I'd think you were simply justifying things for yourself. If you spend a lot of money and time playing a nice game, of course you'll want to believe you're learning more from it than you actually do. RS is also simply the most famous product out of those most members would dismiss as nearly useless. Most members would also tell you that you won't get far by using the "Learn in your car" series or a phrasebook. Heck even Pimsleur is known here for not getting you very far. And remember, this is an independent forum. You said we're not interested in hearing how good RS is, but well, it's just because you're not very convincing. Many here already know what works for us. It's not enough to say "RS is good". This is not an ad and not your official site so you're free to use the names. "RS is better than [specific product] because..." is what we'd be interested in hearing. But the part after your "because" has to be very convincing. You've only mentioned "thinking in the language" so far and the main problem with it is that I may well think in my native language as I look at a picture. From my experience, it's also just not a big deal. When you know enough words, it's quite easy to stop translating. At the beginner level most people don't even mind having to translate. I'm sure I'm not the only one who didn't bother to elaborate on that point initially. You underestimate the number of things that are a common knowledge at this forum. And while "RS is not enough for fluency and there are better products" is one of them, that's just a consequence of other things being common knowledge. 7 persons have voted this message useful |
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