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Tarvos - TAC 2015 Pushkin/Scan | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Language Learning Log |  | |
| tarvos Super Polyglot Winner TAC 2012 Senior Member China likeapolyglot.wordpr Joined 4708 days ago 5310 posts - 9399 votes  Speaks: Dutch*, English, Swedish, French, Russian, German, Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Afrikaans Studies: Greek, Modern Hebrew, Spanish, Portuguese, Czech, Korean, Esperanto, Finnish | Message 1121 of 1511 23 February 2014 at 10:55pm | IP Logged | |||||
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I'm glad at least someone thinks I am competent. I still have trouble believing it. But
then again my mental state over the past months is nothing short of ужас. 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| tarvos Super Polyglot Winner TAC 2012 Senior Member China likeapolyglot.wordpr Joined 4708 days ago 5310 posts - 9399 votes Speaks: Dutch*, English, Swedish, French, Russian, German, Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Afrikaans Studies: Greek, Modern Hebrew, Spanish, Portuguese, Czech, Korean, Esperanto, Finnish | Message 1122 of 1511 26 February 2014 at 10:14am | IP Logged | |||||
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Ok, c'est bon le français. Mais dans le vieux temps passé on écrivait dans un style...
disons plus littéraire, et moins contemporaine - et alors plus difficile à comprendre pour ceux qui ne sont pas grandis dans un château à Versailles à 1862. Donc le défi c'est de rendre plus clair le texte pour les lecteurs d'aujourd'hui, ce qu'on fait ainsi: Texte original Les Misérables, 1862 Ce jardin ainsi livré à lui-même depuis plus d’un demi-siècle était devenu extraordinaire et charmant. Les passants d’il y a quarante ans s’arrêtaient dans cette rue pour le contempler, sans se douter des secrets qu’il dérobait derrière ses épaisseurs fraîches et vertes. Plus d’un songeur à cette époque a laissé bien des fois ses yeux et sa pensée pénétrer indiscrètement à travers les barreaux de l’antique grille cadenassée, tordue, branlante, scellée à deux piliers verdis et moussus, bizarrement couronnée d’un fronton d’arabesques indéchiffrables. Les ronces étaient montées vers les arbres, la plante avait grimpé, la branche avait fléchi, ce qui rampe sur la terre avait été trouver ce qui s’épanouit dans l’air, ce qui flotte au vent s’était penché vers ce qui se traîne dans la mousse ; troncs, rameaux, feuilles, fibres, touffes, vrilles, sarments, épines, s’étaient mêlés, traversés, mariés, confondus ; la végétation, dans un embrassement étroit et profond, avait célébré et accompli là, sous l’oeil satisfait du créateur, en cet enclos de trois cents pieds carrés, le saint mystère de sa fraternité, symbole de la fraternité humaine. Ce jardin n’était plus un jardin, c’était une broussaille colossale, c’est-à- dire quelque chose qui est impénétrable comme une forêt, peuplé comme une ville, frissonnant comme un nid, sombre comme une cathédrale, odorant comme un bouquet, solitaire comme une tombe, vivant comme une foule. Version 1 : transcription moderne, écrite Ce jardin, abandonné depuis plus d'un demi-siècle, était devenu magnifique et extraordinaire. Les visiteurs s'y arrêtaient pour admirer sa beauté, sans se douter des secrets qu'il cachait derrière sa verdure. Il arrivait souvent que quelqu'un songe à ce qui se passait à travers les barreaux de l'antique grille verrouillée, soudés a deux piliers anciens, bizarrement cousus comme des fils fins. Les plantes avaient grimpé et poussé partout, jusqu'aux arbres, et s'étaient épanouis dans l'air – il n'y avait aucune espace inoccupé par quelque chose qui n'était pas collé au sol et pouvait flotter au vent. Troncs, rameaux, feuilles, fibres, touffes, vrilles, sarments, épines, s’étaient mêlés et confondus dans une embrasse énorme et chaotique, formaient un symbole de la fraternité humaine. Ce jardin n'était plus un jardin, mais une marque gigantesque qui ne personnifiait que des superlatifs – il était impénétrable comme une forêt, peuplé comme une ville, frissonnant comme un nid, sombre comme une cathédrale, odorant comme un bouquet, solitaire comme une tombe, vivant comme une foule. Edited by tarvos on 26 February 2014 at 10:15am 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| josepablo Tetraglot Senior Member Portugal Joined 3991 days ago 123 posts - 141 votes Speaks: German, Spanish, Dutch, Portuguese Studies: Russian, Mandarin, Turkish | Message 1123 of 1511 26 February 2014 at 7:59pm | IP Logged | |||||
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La différence entre les 2 versions est la même que celle entre une peinture classique d'un grand peintre et celle "actualisée" d'un amateur contemporain peu versé dans l'art et la technique de peindre.
Ici le style supposé contemporain, peu soigné de surcroît, n'a pas rendu la description plus compréhensible, mais insipide, incolore et inodore, alors que l'original est vibrant, plein d'images, de vie, de couleurs, d'odeurs, de mouvements - une symphonie là où le "contemporanisé" n'est que confusion et cacaphonie. Edited by josepablo on 26 February 2014 at 8:01pm 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| druckfehler Triglot Senior Member Germany Joined 4869 days ago 1181 posts - 1912 votes Speaks: German*, EnglishC2, Korean Studies: Persian | Message 1124 of 1511 26 February 2014 at 8:28pm | IP Logged | |||||
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Hey tarvos, I'm going to teach German to two Romanians for a while. I had to think of your teaching plans for the summer :) I'm wondering if you could give me any pointers about grammatical concepts which are different in German and Romanian and which might be difficult to grasp. For example, is there such a thing as Dativ and Akkusativ and different pronouns for each of these cases?
1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| tarvos Super Polyglot Winner TAC 2012 Senior Member China likeapolyglot.wordpr Joined 4708 days ago 5310 posts - 9399 votes Speaks: Dutch*, English, Swedish, French, Russian, German, Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Afrikaans Studies: Greek, Modern Hebrew, Spanish, Portuguese, Czech, Korean, Esperanto, Finnish | Message 1125 of 1511 26 February 2014 at 9:15pm | IP Logged | |||||
Il me semble que vous ayez mal entendu l'idée de l'exercice - c'était un dévoir pour mes sessions de français.
It's in April, actually! Only a month away : D Grammatical concepts that differ between Romanian and German are numerous, but... here are a couple things. - Romanian is the only large, living Romance language that has retained a case system that is still in active use. However, it has collapsed, and nouns can be declined for three cases: the nominative/accusative, the dative-genitive, and the vocative (this last one is rare). Romanian distinguishes between the definite and indefinite article, however it plonks the definite article AFTER the noun: here's an example un bărbat - bărbatul - unui bărbat - bărbatului bărbați(lor) - bărbații(lor). - Romanian distinguishes between cases in pronouns. This concept is not foreign to a Romanian. - Romanian tends to use the subjunctive much more than the infinitive (and in most cases where German uses an infinitive, a subjunctive is mandatory in Romanian) - ich will essen vs. (eu) vreau să mănânc - Because Romanian is a pro-drop language, Romanian drops personal pronouns as the subject when the actor is implicit from the verb, unless it is required for emphasis - (eu) vorbesc românește, I speak Romanian. The eu is used to indicate that it is me who is able to speak Romanian and not somebody else (vorbesc românește is a neutral statement) - Romanian distinguishes between participles and supine forms. Furthermore all verbs in the perfect compus (present perfect with auxiliary) are formed with the auxiliary to have - verbs conjugated with a fi (= to be) are always passive forms, never active verb conjugations - Romanian has far more verb tenses than German does, being a Romance language - however their shades of nuance are not used in the same way as in German. - Pronunciation - your students will have huge problems with German vowel sounds, because the vowel inventory of Romanian is limited when it comes to monophthongs - a/e/i/o/u like in Spanish, â (which is a sound like Russian ы, not in German) and ă (a schwa). ü is unheard of, so is ö. Consonants also don't work the same way, and Romanians don't aspirate their initial stops, so that k/t/p don't have breathy aspects to them - Word order is like French or Spanish, but freer (thanks to the case system) - however the participle-to-the-end rule is unheard of in Romanian. Edited by tarvos on 26 February 2014 at 10:14pm 5 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| druckfehler Triglot Senior Member Germany Joined 4869 days ago 1181 posts - 1912 votes Speaks: German*, EnglishC2, Korean Studies: Persian | Message 1126 of 1511 26 February 2014 at 11:30pm | IP Logged | |||||
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Thanks for the overview! I find it really helpful to have some concept of the native language of my pupils when I'm teaching. I guess it can be done without a clue, but I find that it helps me to understand my students' perspective on German.
Ah, I misremembered when you're going to be in Romania. Pretty quick, considering that it's a relatively new plan. Great that it works out like that. Romanian sounds rather cool! Quite familiar from romance languages, yet somehow really quirky. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| tarvos Super Polyglot Winner TAC 2012 Senior Member China likeapolyglot.wordpr Joined 4708 days ago 5310 posts - 9399 votes Speaks: Dutch*, English, Swedish, French, Russian, German, Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Afrikaans Studies: Greek, Modern Hebrew, Spanish, Portuguese, Czech, Korean, Esperanto, Finnish | Message 1127 of 1511 26 February 2014 at 11:37pm | IP Logged | |||||
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It's basically a Romance language sailing on a sea of weird in the Balkan. Which makes it
the most fun of the family to learn (except for French, I guess, but I never had a choice with that one). 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| druckfehler Triglot Senior Member Germany Joined 4869 days ago 1181 posts - 1912 votes Speaks: German*, EnglishC2, Korean Studies: Persian | Message 1128 of 1511 27 February 2014 at 12:00am | IP Logged | |||||
Haha, love the description :) 1 person has voted this message useful |
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