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Tarvos - TAC 2015 Pushkin/Scan | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Language Learning Log |  | |
| tarvos Super Polyglot Winner TAC 2012 Senior Member China likeapolyglot.wordpr Joined 4705 days ago 5310 posts - 9399 votes  Speaks: Dutch*, English, Swedish, French, Russian, German, Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Afrikaans Studies: Greek, Modern Hebrew, Spanish, Portuguese, Czech, Korean, Esperanto, Finnish | Message 361 of 1511 27 November 2012 at 8:37pm | IP Logged |
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Thanks for the info. I replaced it with Оценивать in the sentence though.
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| tarvos Super Polyglot Winner TAC 2012 Senior Member China likeapolyglot.wordpr Joined 4705 days ago 5310 posts - 9399 votes Speaks: Dutch*, English, Swedish, French, Russian, German, Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Afrikaans Studies: Greek, Modern Hebrew, Spanish, Portuguese, Czech, Korean, Esperanto, Finnish | Message 362 of 1511 27 November 2012 at 10:14pm | IP Logged |
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It almost feels superfluous posting a status update here, since I have been updating
quite regularly (and my goals have changed a lot over the year). I started out as doing just Russian, but I developed and grew and ever since I have veered off into a million directs and I can definitely state that I am a little more of a polyglot now ;) So, without any further ado, the languages that I don't consider my native(-like) tongues have developed in the following way (doing them in no particular order) Deutsch Initial level was something like a B1-B2. I have not really studied much German this year, mostly because it's a language I barely use. I also started out with no goals for this one (the only language that I had goals for in January was Russian). However, I think my German is at a fairly stable level, and my experiences have proven this to me. I have spoken German about 4 or 5 times at disparate occasions this year and I have never failed at speaking them or making myself understood. I also read "Die Dreigroschenoper" in German, despite that being slightly dated German, and I spent four days in Munich socialising with my German friend and her friends, and spoke to my hosts only in German. I also read the newspaper there and understood it with no problems - it is dialects that bother me in German, not Hochdeutsch. I estimate that I am still a solid B1-B2. The only thing that could improve severely in this language is my writing and my grammar, but that is a skill I barely ever use in German and for that reason I have not seen fit to remedy the problem. I am sure people who are more knowledgeable than me can confirm that I speak German, albeit it's sometimes funny, awkward, and a little silly. Français Initially I was at a B1 level. I have progressed through most of B1 now. I have not sat an official B2 exam but I am pretty sure I could go there and pass it, at least in terms of how I speak colloquially (writing is another ball game entirely). The one thing that bothered me in French was a lot of listening, and that's something only practice can remedy. I remember when I first spoke to Solfrid Cristin in French I understood about half of what she said - it's much better now with my comprehension, although I do have to focus to get all the details right. But it is much better. I have been taking classes at the AF (and passed them with flying colours), I have spent 6 days in France, and I have spoken French colloquially a few times outside of that. I have also recorded a video in French on YouTube. I wanted to get to about B2/C1 this year. I probably did not manage C1 but I can say I improved a whole lot and that I speak French, although to what extent it constitutes real fluency is left up to the speaker to decide. I at least thought the basic fluency tag was warranted. Русский I started off as a beginner. I ended up as a B1 speaker at least. I can now converse in Russian, albeit with hesitancy and some awkward circumlocutions. I can use instant messaging in Russian, and I can personally correspond with people from all over Russia in writing (yes, I write letters to Russians, so sue me). I have found a Russian shop and they were very appreciative of my pronunciation - so were other people that I spoke to in Russian (online through Verbling or through watching one of my videos). I believe that B1 is still the best qualifier at this point in time. I do make some grammar mistakes and I have troubles with tougher texts; a science mag does not take me long to finish in French - which I can read quite comfortably at about 2/3 the rate of English - but I can read articles, although I need a dictionary to explain some common words. And yes, I am subscribed to Russian science magazines - this, along with having Russian online friends is how I maintain my Russian. And all of those people have been very appreciative of my efforts in Russian, so if they say so, I can say so and I am proud that I have come this far. But I am pretty sure I am not finished yet. My goal was B1 and that I managed, but now I want to be able to read longer texts, novels, and so on in Russian and I want to be able to speak freely like in German or French - not awkwardly. Svenska I did not expect to study this at all, but I started in July and to my surprise I found that in November I spoke pretty good Swedish! It must be the easiest language that I have ever learned in my entire life. Something went right here, because I read the first part of the Millenium trilogy in Swedish with ease - reading the second half of the book in about four hours! My goals were none, as it was an experiment, but I think I can say I have gotten to B1 (I think my active production lags a little, but not much, behind my understanding of Swedish) and if I manage to have meaningful social interactions entirely in Swedish sometime then I will give it a basic fluency tag. Lingua Latina I had no goals for this, and I still don't - it's a dead language, and I do not know what will happen to it (although I understand some of it and the grammar is still reasonably familiar). Despite having a good structural overview of Latin I cannot speak it and I do not know when this language will be resuscitated and added to my repertoire of actively studied languages. It may perhaps become a future project of mine. In any case, I do have some passive knowledge of it left. Brezhoneg Only studied it in the context of the Assimil experiment and have had zero experience speaking it, as it's a rare endangered language. I basically just want to understand how this language works for now and finish the Assimil course. Once that is done, we will see what happens to it. In short: German B2 --> B2 French B1 --> B2 Russian A1 --> B1 Swedish 0 --> B1 Latin N/A --> N/A Breton 0 --> A1 Other languages I planned to study but did not end up in my regime are Modern Hebrew and Mandarin Chinese. These are future projects for later. I also have an interest in Icelandic (and anything Scandi in general), and would like to pursue that some time in the future. Furthermore Romanian, Portuguese, Greek, Turkish, Farsi, Swahili, Czech, Tagalog and Serbo-Croatian all seem interesting to me at this point (as do Arabic, Spanish and Italian to lesser degrees). My plans are to continue with Hebrew after Breton since I have materials for that language. I may also use FSI for something again - Greek maybe? Edited by tarvos on 31 December 2012 at 11:07am 4 persons have voted this message useful | |
| tarvos Super Polyglot Winner TAC 2012 Senior Member China likeapolyglot.wordpr Joined 4705 days ago 5310 posts - 9399 votes Speaks: Dutch*, English, Swedish, French, Russian, German, Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Afrikaans Studies: Greek, Modern Hebrew, Spanish, Portuguese, Czech, Korean, Esperanto, Finnish | Message 363 of 1511 30 November 2012 at 12:55pm | IP Logged |
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A small... or larger... update...
SV: Igår hade jag lektionen med min privelärarin på Skype. Det var mycket bra: jag förstod nästan allt att hon hade sagt på svenska, och jag kan ha ett samtal utan problemen, men det finns fortfarande många fel som jag gör darför att jag pratar för snabbt. Det angår mest ofta bestämmda artikel och adjektiv. Min lärarin har skickat mig kommentar varinne hon har skrivit att jag pratar redan flytande svenska, men om jag kommer att använda fasta uttryck mer på svenska, då blir det helt fantastiskt. Det finns en massa av sådana uttryck på svenska, så det finns något att klara med. РУ: Я читаю еще медленно на русском, особенно насчет научных журналов, но я преуспевал читать статью о истории развития космических посадках. В статье сказали, что развитие остаётся от прошлых лет, так как организации в финанциальных кризисах и у них денег нет. У нас есть разочарование из-за кризиса, а мы спрашиваем почему у нас посадка космонавтов на поверхности луны не получается. Следующая статья говорит о картофелях. Хм. Может быть я буду изучать немножко о биотехнологоии - может быть, мне скучно будет. Давай увидим. FR: Puis j'ai étudié le français, ce qui a été merveilleusement passé (avec la foire aux questions, la FAQ!), et donc maintenant je trouve que je parle mieux en tout cas. Mais moi, je sais comment parler - je sais juste pas comment parler sans fautes. Mon prof de suédois m'a dit que je dois y réfléchir avant de parler, je parle trop vite et donc je fais des bêtises qui sont absolument pas nécessaires, puisque je suis conscient des règles grammaticales et plus, je sais comment les utiliser. La problème avec le français reste surtout le genre des noms - c'est une chose qui est pas assez logique, mais qui entraîne aussi des conséquences pour des contractions avec les prépositions, les adjectifs, etc. Souvent le genre m'échappe, et donc mes accords fonctionnent pas du tout - mais ça m'êmpeche pas d'écrire en français ici. Je trouve important de pratiquer mon français ici, et donc la conclusion logique est de mettre à jour mon journal partiellement en français. Et pour ceux qui ont peur de dire des bêtises - je leur conseille d'oublier tous ces soucis pas raisonnables, et de juste essayer de parler. Mieux vaut pratiquer. BR: Deskiñ a ran brezhoneg hiziv ivez. FR: Et puis, je vais mettre à jour mon journal avec mes derniers études du breton. Le breton sans peine - jusqu'à la 28ème leçon Les topiques traitées cette semaine par l'Assimil sont les mutations (mais pas au fond), le nom, surtout les noms collectifs, les pronoms, un peu de conjugaisons des verbes, et les négations/affirmations. En fait, le seule fait que j'ai appris quant aux mutations, c'est que le mot "plac'h" (fille) se comporte comme un nom masculin en breton! Il ne se mute PAS après une article, donc, c'est ar plac'h. Ce phénomène sera également valide si on prend le diminutif: ar plac'hig. (-ig/ik est un suffix qui indique la diminution d'un mot). On peut utiliser -ig pour tous les noma, sans modifier le gendre. Donc breur = frère, mais breurig = frérot. Ces formes diminutives sont quoique plus courants en breton et il faut les reconnaître et utiliser; mais pour moi, ça présente aucun problème car les diminutifs sont également courant en néerlandais (et les russes l'aiment aussi!). Notez aussi qu'on peut utiliser des diminutifs pour un adjectif! Koantik = mignonette, littéralement (Koant = mignon). Pour des adjectifs, la terminaison est -ik (variant orthographique de -ig, car la g est dévoisée au fin des mots en breton). Le collectif est une groupe des noms qu'on trouve au pluriel, mais auquel on ajoute un suffixe -enn pour former le singulier (qui est toujours du féminin!) Ces noms collectifs sont surtout utilisés pour des choses végétales, ainsi que pour quelques animaux de petite taille (et aussi pour des crêpes, qui sont partout en Bretagne). En plus nous avons appris une partie de la conjugaison du verbe "kaout" (=avoir = une forme du verbe être). Puis la troisième personne au pluriel du verbe "bezañ" (location) et du verbe "ober", qui se terminent en -nt. (emaint, reont). Veuillez ne pas oublier que cette conjugaison indique que le sujet n'est exprimé nulle part! Il existe des pronoms personnelles en breton, mais ils sont guère utilisés - ils sont souvent là quand on a besoin de l'emphase. Cf. français "Moi, je travaille pas pendant la semaine" (Me n'a labour ket e-pad ar sizhun), pour indiquer une opposition à quelqu'un qui travaille pendant la semaine. Et finalement, on utilise "Ya", suivi du verbe, pour affirmer une phrase positive; Eo pour l’équivalent du français "si", suivi du verbe; Nann pour répondre Non aux phrases négatives. Dans l'autre cas, on utilise juste le verbe à la négative: "Glav a ra hiziv?" "Ne ra ket". ---- That is everything for today. Edited by tarvos on 30 November 2012 at 2:56pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| Solfrid Cristin Heptaglot Winner TAC 2011 & 2012 Senior Member Norway Joined 5332 days ago 4143 posts - 8864 votes Speaks: Norwegian*, Spanish, Swedish, French, English, German, Italian Studies: Russian | Message 364 of 1511 30 November 2012 at 1:05pm | IP Logged |
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To which extent do you find words in Breton which you can recognize from other languages? Brother is "bror" in Norwegian, and even if I know that Breton (what is the word for that in English?) is neither a Germanic language nor a Romance one, I assume that they must have some loan words from the languages surrounding it?
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| tarvos Super Polyglot Winner TAC 2012 Senior Member China likeapolyglot.wordpr Joined 4705 days ago 5310 posts - 9399 votes Speaks: Dutch*, English, Swedish, French, Russian, German, Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Afrikaans Studies: Greek, Modern Hebrew, Spanish, Portuguese, Czech, Korean, Esperanto, Finnish | Message 365 of 1511 30 November 2012 at 2:47pm | IP Logged |
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The language is also called Breton in English. They have a fair amount of loans from
French, but 99% of it is adapted to Breton orthography. The very basic words are similar (numerals, day/night, etc) as Breton is Indo-European. Breton prefers coining new terms to loaning, but centuries of cohabitation with French have turned it into a mine of French loans, even if you can't tell what they are at first sight; for example gwastell = gateau. But mutated it becomes wastell and you have no idea that it is a loan, you have to understand that kastell = chateau, gontell = couteau, etc. malizenn = valise, but words in Breton don't start with v unless they mutate (it is ar valizenn though). Most words are new, and there is some loaning from French for common objects going on. Apart from that, not much. EDIT: I would like to add that speaking Welsh, or even Irish or Scottish Gaelic would help with this language (so would Cornish as it is the closest, Manx a bit less). However, I don't speak any of those languages and the only one I might potentially tackle is Irish. But that is not because of loanwords (although they may have been loaned 2000 years ago for god knows whatever reason). Those languages are from the same family. Breton is a part of the Brythonic language family (a subgroup of the Celtic language family) and its closest relatives are Welsh and Cornish (I think I posted that in my "why am I doing Breton" post when I started, but you might have to go back a few pages. It was written in French and I am not sure how clear my French is). Since for most of Breton's lifespan it has been on the continent (in Brittany and surroundings), it is French that has had the most infuence and loanwords from French do exist in quite a few places. The truth about Breton is: you are going to have to adapt to learning a whole bunch of new vocabulary. Fortunately you don't need to learn another alphabet. Many orthographical signs and ways of expressing things are quite similar to that of French (with a few exceptions and some sounds that French does not even have). More fortune is that the Bretons have found an ingenious way of simplifying the morphology so that the most you will see in terms of changes to nouns are plural markers (of which there are only a few) and initial mutations. These initial mutations follow clear phonological patterns according to voicing/devoicing, or are otherwise logical. So vocabulary isn't hard because you do not have to learn 60 cases for each word. You need to know the word, maybe its gender (although a mutation will tell you the gender if you read it for a noun) and the classical mutation paradigms. Furthermore verb conjugation is needed, but verb conjugation is not more difficult than in French (and a shitload less irregular). And like I said, the Breton construct new vocabulary caveman-style. A bike is a metal horse. Petrol is waterfire. An aeroplane is a flying chariot, a car is a fire chariot. Poultry is chicken meat. A restaurant is an eating house. An atelier is a painting room. A foyer is a welcome room. Etc. etc. You can make any building by just saying ti- describing word. If you said ti-<camel> then that would probably just mean camel stables. :) Edited by tarvos on 30 November 2012 at 4:16pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| tarvos Super Polyglot Winner TAC 2012 Senior Member China likeapolyglot.wordpr Joined 4705 days ago 5310 posts - 9399 votes Speaks: Dutch*, English, Swedish, French, Russian, German, Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Afrikaans Studies: Greek, Modern Hebrew, Spanish, Portuguese, Czech, Korean, Esperanto, Finnish | Message 366 of 1511 01 December 2012 at 12:57am | IP Logged |
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Today I have done my usual lesson of Breton (but I will update in a more grand fashion
concerning that over the weekend I guess). I have also continued to read in my magazines, but the most important discovery I have made is the following... SV: Jag gillar Sofia Karlsson verkligen mycket. Jag har aldrig hört en så klar röst, med en så lätt gitarrspel att jag bekommer konstiga känslor varje gång att jag lyssnar på det. Och hon sjunger om de mest enkla saker som finns i livet; kärlek, historien, länder, snö... om livet, kort sagt. Ärligt talat vet jag inte ens vad hennes beste sång är (och om hon har skrivit den där sången själv) men det är självklart att det är verkligen magistralt. Det är från en andra planet, från en värld som jag aldrig har hört tala om, som jag aldrig har kännt till. Jag kan verkligen lyssna på det för en evighet. Och det är en sådan röst som tvingar mig att lära mig svenska, för jag förstår inte hur man lever utan det. Här ar texten av "Flickan och kråkan". Jag vet att det är en cover, men jag bryr mig inte om det - när Sofia sjunger det blir allting bättre. Jag satt häromdagen och läste min tidning en dag som så många förut. O jag tänkte på alla dom drömmar man drömt som en efter en har tatt slut Då såg jag en bild av en flicka med en skadskjuten kråka i famn hon springer iväg genom skogen så fort som hon någonsin kan Och hon springer med fladdrande lockar hon springer på taniga ben o hon bönar och ber och hon hoppas och tror att det inte ska vara för sent Flickan är liten och hennes hår är så ljust o hennes kind är så flämtande röd kråkan är klumpig och kraxande svart om en stund är den alldeles död Men flickan, hon springer för livet hos en skadskjuten fågel i famn hon springer mot trygghet och värme för det som är riktigt och sant O hon springer med tindrande ögon hon springer på taniga ben för hon vet att det är sant, det som pappa har sagt att finns det liv är det aldrig för sent O jag började darra i vånda och nöd jag skakade av rädsla och skräck för jag visste ju alldeles tydligt och klart att det var bilden av mig som jag sett För mitt hopp är en skadsjuten kråka och jag är ett springande barn som tror det finns någon som kan hjälpa mig än som tror det finns nån som har svar O jag springer med bultande hjärta jag springer på taniga ben O jag bönar och ber, fast jag egentligen vet att det redan är alldeles för sent 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| tarvos Super Polyglot Winner TAC 2012 Senior Member China likeapolyglot.wordpr Joined 4705 days ago 5310 posts - 9399 votes Speaks: Dutch*, English, Swedish, French, Russian, German, Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Afrikaans Studies: Greek, Modern Hebrew, Spanish, Portuguese, Czech, Korean, Esperanto, Finnish | Message 367 of 1511 03 December 2012 at 12:09am | IP Logged |
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Today there was another Team Sputnik Skype session, today with Teango and
Fabriciocarraro, in which me and Teango exchanged some words in German and we invited a Russian speaker and practiced our fledgling Russian. РУ: Русский хороший был, и мне был понятно процентов в 75 разговора,.. DE: ...daneben habe ich auch noch etwas auf Deutsch geredet mit Teango... FR: ...mais le plupart de ce week-end était consacré aux études qui concernaient pas des langues étrangères, mais les sciences. Ben, il faut faire ça. Mais néanmoins j'ai étudie deux leçons d'Assimil, et j'ai découvert que maintenant je peux conjuguer presque tout les verbes au présent (et la forme progressive aussi que la forme d'habitude). En plus je ne suis pas limité et je sais comment tutoyer les gens en breton (ce qui n'est pas assez fréquent quand même). En plus j'ai découvert qu'il y a trop des autres particules qui entraînent la mutation adoucissante: mis a part les articles et la particule verbale a, le mot "re" (trop) et le mot da (ton, ta, tes), attention à ne pas confondre da comme possessif avec la préposition da (qui entraîne ÉGALEMENT cette mutation). Plus les négations (avec ne) et la préposition dre demandent cette mutation aussi. Veuillez aussi noter que d mute en z pour ces mots. Donc: Pesked a zebran (Je mange des poissons). La verbe est debriñ, bien sûr, mais après la particule "a" d mute vers z. Et il suffit d'ajouter se (souvent prononcé ze) apres un substantif (ou l'adjectiv lié au substantif) comme une épithète afin de former un démonstratif. An ti-se (cette maison-là), ar pesked bras-se (ces grands poissons-là), etc. BR: Plijout a ra din brezhoneg. Gwelloc'h a gomzan bremañ. FR: Et finalement j'ai commencé lire "Une forme de vie", ecrit par Amelie Nothomb (qui d'autre), et les premiers cinquante pages sont un peu dérangeants donc je me suis arrêté avant d'attraper la volonté de me tuer. Ce qui m'échappe maintenant, grâce aux mes collègues de l'équipe Sputnik!. Mais je continue ma lecture avant le sommeil ce soir, en espérant fort que je finisse le livre ce nuit. Edited by tarvos on 04 December 2012 at 12:12am 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| tarvos Super Polyglot Winner TAC 2012 Senior Member China likeapolyglot.wordpr Joined 4705 days ago 5310 posts - 9399 votes Speaks: Dutch*, English, Swedish, French, Russian, German, Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Afrikaans Studies: Greek, Modern Hebrew, Spanish, Portuguese, Czech, Korean, Esperanto, Finnish | Message 368 of 1511 04 December 2012 at 12:19am | IP Logged |
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I have not done much of language-related things today, and a detailed appraisal of Breton
grammar will have to wait - university studies and all that - but I did do my daily lesson and read some Russian (which wasn't very interesting) in the bus on biotechnology. Breton mutations are weird to get the hang of. It is also irritating when making wordlists because you often have to check the base word - which isn't necessarily what is in the Assimil text. Or in the dictionary (silly me got a Vannetais dialect dictionary, which is not exactly what the standard orthography is like...) And now I'm going to occupy myself with Amélie Nothomb before bed. 1 person has voted this message useful |
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