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Tarvos - TAC 2015 Pushkin/Scan | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Language Learning Log |  | |
| tarvos Super Polyglot Winner TAC 2012 Senior Member China likeapolyglot.wordpr Joined 4705 days ago 5310 posts - 9399 votes  Speaks: Dutch*, English, Swedish, French, Russian, German, Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Afrikaans Studies: Greek, Modern Hebrew, Spanish, Portuguese, Czech, Korean, Esperanto, Finnish | Message 625 of 1511 12 April 2013 at 10:55am | IP Logged | ||||||||
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The difference between an alveolar and a dental t is somewhat smaller to me than that
between /h/ and /x/ or /h/ and /χ/ :) That reminds me, when I speak Russian, are my t's and d's actually dental enough? What do you mean by softer? More palatalised? 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Марк Senior Member Russian Federation Joined 5054 days ago 2096 posts - 2972 votes Speaks: Russian* | Message 626 of 1511 12 April 2013 at 11:28am | IP Logged | ||||||||
That's for you. But to a Russian ear the English t sounds like a mixture of т, ть, ч, ц. The exact value depends on the speaker or the position of a t. So, the difference is very audible. [h] and [x] are very similar to a Russian ear, but /χ/ sounds really different.
No. The S.-C. L is alveolar, while the Russian L is dental. The Russian soft L is a palatalized sound, while the S.-C. is a palatal one. Edited by Марк on 12 April 2013 at 11:29am 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| tarvos Super Polyglot Winner TAC 2012 Senior Member China likeapolyglot.wordpr Joined 4705 days ago 5310 posts - 9399 votes Speaks: Dutch*, English, Swedish, French, Russian, German, Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Afrikaans Studies: Greek, Modern Hebrew, Spanish, Portuguese, Czech, Korean, Esperanto, Finnish | Message 627 of 1511 12 April 2013 at 11:37am | IP Logged | ||||||||
So what does "soft" here actually refer to then?
I mostly hear aspiration in a lot of places. In some places English /t/ is actually one of those other sounds because of English orthography being absolutely terribad. I personally substituted Dutch 't' and 'd' at the beginning when studying Russian, but I do not remember whether those were alveolar, dental, or somewhere in the middle. As far as I remember, Belgians have a dental sound. Edited by tarvos on 12 April 2013 at 11:37am 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Марк Senior Member Russian Federation Joined 5054 days ago 2096 posts - 2972 votes Speaks: Russian* | Message 628 of 1511 12 April 2013 at 12:12pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
The height of a formant, I think.
I'm talking about the English sound [t]. Russian hard т is dry and hard. It does not have even a shadow of softness or africation in itself. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| tarvos Super Polyglot Winner TAC 2012 Senior Member China likeapolyglot.wordpr Joined 4705 days ago 5310 posts - 9399 votes Speaks: Dutch*, English, Swedish, French, Russian, German, Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Afrikaans Studies: Greek, Modern Hebrew, Spanish, Portuguese, Czech, Korean, Esperanto, Finnish | Message 629 of 1511 12 April 2013 at 12:17pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
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Yes, but English t can be many things depending on the word/position etc. The English
"pure" t sound... does that even exist? Is that the t sound as enunciated in "stop" (not word-initial aspirated 't') 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Марк Senior Member Russian Federation Joined 5054 days ago 2096 posts - 2972 votes Speaks: Russian* | Message 630 of 1511 12 April 2013 at 12:42pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
From the Russian point of view, it doesn't. There might be something similar, but it's not garanteed. And the aspiration is the secondary thing, the main thing is the position of the tongue. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| tarvos Super Polyglot Winner TAC 2012 Senior Member China likeapolyglot.wordpr Joined 4705 days ago 5310 posts - 9399 votes Speaks: Dutch*, English, Swedish, French, Russian, German, Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Afrikaans Studies: Greek, Modern Hebrew, Spanish, Portuguese, Czech, Korean, Esperanto, Finnish | Message 631 of 1511 12 April 2013 at 1:01pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
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I see. Well, I don't pronounce an English t when speaking Russian anyways, but I don't
know how close my t gets to a Russian one (it's modelled on a Dutch t which is already different from an English t). Speaking of pronunciation, I find it really weird that a year or more ago I could not distinguish between a whole variety of 'r' sounds (i.e. alveolar and uvular r sounded the same to me). After I'd finally learned to pronounce an alveolar r the sounds have become "distinct" in my mind. (I also notice who uses what r in Dutch. In Dutch 'r' sounds are basically a "whatever pick something"). Edited by tarvos on 12 April 2013 at 1:47pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| tarvos Super Polyglot Winner TAC 2012 Senior Member China likeapolyglot.wordpr Joined 4705 days ago 5310 posts - 9399 votes Speaks: Dutch*, English, Swedish, French, Russian, German, Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Afrikaans Studies: Greek, Modern Hebrew, Spanish, Portuguese, Czech, Korean, Esperanto, Finnish | Message 632 of 1511 12 April 2013 at 4:12pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
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Romania is not going through, so back to my focus on Hebrew it is :)
1 person has voted this message useful |
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