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Learning Languages Simultaneously | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : General discussion |  | |
| Serpent Octoglot Senior Member Russian Federation serpent-849.livejour Joined 6395 days ago 9753 posts - 15779 votes  4 sounds Speaks: Russian*, English, FinnishC1, Latin, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese Studies: Danish, Romanian, Polish, Belarusian, Ukrainian, Croatian, Slovenian, Catalan, Czech, Galician, Dutch, Swedish | Message 25 of 77 20 May 2013 at 10:49pm | IP Logged | ||
I guess I'm lucky not to be interested in most languages from your list :P :) 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Serpent Octoglot Senior Member Russian Federation serpent-849.livejour Joined 6395 days ago 9753 posts - 15779 votes 4 sounds Speaks: Russian*, English, FinnishC1, Latin, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese Studies: Danish, Romanian, Polish, Belarusian, Ukrainian, Croatian, Slovenian, Catalan, Czech, Galician, Dutch, Swedish | Message 26 of 77 20 May 2013 at 10:53pm | IP Logged | ||
1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| kujichagulia Senior Member Japan Joined 4645 days ago 1031 posts - 1571 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Japanese, Portuguese | Message 27 of 77 21 May 2013 at 2:17am | IP Logged | ||
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For those of you who say it is better to study one language at a time rather than multiple languages - how do you do it? How do you not burn out when studying so much every day?
If I dropped Portuguese, I would have two or three hours for Japanese study every day. But I dread studying Japanese for more than an hour a day. That would burn me out. And what would I do with the other one or two hours? Something in English: read an English book, watch TV or listen to radio in English. Why not do that in Japanese, you say. Because I'm not at that level. I don't have the vocabulary and grammar to read a Japanese novel or enjoy a Japanese drama. Until I get to a level where I can do that, I need to study, and like I said, I can only do so much study a day. That is why I also study Portuguese. If I'm not going to use it for Japanese, why not use it for another language instead of English? Now, don't get me wrong. I agree with the theory that it is best to learn only one language up until C1 before trying to learn another. I just wish I could apply that theory to my own situation. I would love to be able to do "all Japanese, all the time", but I can't bring myself to do that. And if I force it, voila, burnout. So, how do you guys do it? How can you study one language, all day, all the time, without burning out? Edited by kujichagulia on 21 May 2013 at 2:17am 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Kronos Diglot Senior Member Germany Joined 5059 days ago 186 posts - 452 votes Speaks: German*, English | Message 28 of 77 21 May 2013 at 8:06am | IP Logged | ||
A friend of mine, who is definitely better in languages than I, got involved with a girl in Thailand a couple of years ago (no sleaze, they are happily married now). She hardly knew any English, so communication was difficult. So he learned Thai. Attending a beginner's class, working through at least half a dozen textbooks (almost all there is), spending at least a month a year in Thailand, interacting with people there, reading newspapers and translations of foreign books, listening to podcasts and radio, watching TV. Most of all, chatting with his girlfriend on a daily basis, maybe 1-2 hours a day, via phone, text messaging, and increasingly Skype. Socializing with other Thais and farangs as well wherever he got to know any. After about 3-4 years into his journey with Thai I had a talk with him about language learning. As a rational person he is not given to hype and exaggeration. He looked at the CEFR scale and rated himself as "A2", and said he felt rather frustrated because it is difficult to further improve, the main reason being lack of vocabulary and idiomatic usage. Where to get it? By then he was able to get along in the country and dealing with everyday matters, but still with some difficulty, and not much beyond that. More recently - after six years of almost daily exposure - he has become more satisfied with his speech level, but I doubt that he would rate it beyond B1 even now. He can now talk freely and with little effort, but of course he is still limited in his expression. You cannot have any deep conversations at that level. A friend of his who has got around a lot was already fluent in four languages before he also got involved in Thailand. He said that Thai is the hardest language he has ever had to do with, and even Arabic (Egyptian Arabic, which he speaks fluently) is like nothing in comparison. Therefore I wonder about the C1/C2 suggestion. Even an exceptional polyglot like Steve Kaufmann, who is certainly not victim to any lack of self-confidence, having lived in Japan for about a decade (after already having learned Chinese) and doing business there, constantly interacting with people and being able to read classical literature with some appreciation as well, rates himself as a "weak C1" in Japanese; that was during his arguments with Benny Lewis. I suppose that there are relatively few people of Western origin who have reached a truly advanced level in just ONE East Asian language, and these I guess will be mostly diplomats, language specialists, interpreters/translators, or people who have continuously lived there for at least 5-10 years and actively take part in the local culture. I guess this is also the reason why Clugston thinks so highly of StuJay, who seems to be one of those rare exceptions. If it read "B2" instead of "C1/C2", I would find it easier to agree. B2 is a basic level of mastery, a stage where you already have an all-round command of the language, can freely talk to native speakers about virtually all topics, provided it is not too abstract, read most books, provided they are not too literary, and understand what people say, though not without missing things here and there. You are fully functional, but your vocabulary and width of expression is still limited. The common FSI assessments of how many hours it takes to learn a certain language correspond to a level that is equivalent to B2. The conventional grammar-based strategy, going through not only textbooks but a wide array of didactic materials also aims at a B2 level of accomplishment. At that point study per se ends, because there is little left to study apart from acquiring new words and getting deeper into idiomatic usage. In the case of European languages I believe once you have mastered the necessary grammar, know a few thousand words by heart, can form sentences, and start to think in the language, you basically have already made it and crossed a vital threshold, and this should correspond to B1 approximately. Beyond that further study will be increasingly more about breadth than depth, and I don't see why at that point one should not take up a new language if one wants to and has the necessary time. But in the case of Asian languages I see the point (and that is one reason why I don't study any), only C1/C2 appears to me extravagant. I've got stuck at C1 (at most) with English more than a decade ago, so I can't expect anything beyond that in other languages either. Edited by Kronos on 21 May 2013 at 8:53am 7 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Kronos Diglot Senior Member Germany Joined 5059 days ago 186 posts - 452 votes Speaks: German*, English | Message 29 of 77 21 May 2013 at 8:44am | IP Logged | ||
That's one of the reasons why many people like to study several languages at the same time. There is more variety, and in the long run you may have learned more due to wiser time investment. In school most kids had to learn two or three languages in parallel (like English, French and Latin), and this didn't create any problems. It didn't affect progress in the most important one, English, either. When I was experimenting last year I found that if I studied only Spanish I felt exhausted after about 90 minutes even though I still had time and would have liked to do (much) more. Then I added French, 30 minutes a day and cutting down a bit on Spanish, i.e. almost two hours in total, and afterwards felt lest exhausted. This really surprised me. Then I went on and added Italian - this meant some extra effort and again cutting down a bit on Spanish, but the balance was even better, although altogether it felt neither better nor worse than studying two languages. Then I added Portuguese, but here was the limit. I will probably keep it, I hope for a while at least, I just love it, but my ideal rhythm is 2-3 languages a day. Below that I am not fully efficient, beyond that it becomes stressful, and sometimes an overload. I am not sure that I want to add a fifth one on a daily basis. What many people do is focus on one language (the more difficult one) at a time, and alongside work with lesser intensity on one or a couple of others which they can at a later date intensify. If that does not create any problems I don't see why one should not do it. Edited by Kronos on 21 May 2013 at 8:47am 7 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| luke Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 7003 days ago 3133 posts - 4351 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish Studies: Esperanto, French | Message 30 of 77 21 May 2013 at 9:53am | IP Logged | ||
That sounds like the "spurt" method leosmith wrote about. Do you plan to come back to any of your previous lovers? If you've done that, it would be interesting to hear about your experience. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Serpent Octoglot Senior Member Russian Federation serpent-849.livejour Joined 6395 days ago 9753 posts - 15779 votes 4 sounds Speaks: Russian*, English, FinnishC1, Latin, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese Studies: Danish, Romanian, Polish, Belarusian, Ukrainian, Croatian, Slovenian, Catalan, Czech, Galician, Dutch, Swedish | Message 31 of 77 21 May 2013 at 10:50am | IP Logged | ||
You have to love it insanely. Do you love Japanese as much as Khatzumoto does? Would you be learning it if you weren't in Japan? I actually think that the only thing that makes me different from many is loving 10 languages the way most people love just one or two, if even that. (and then they're like "I want to learn one more language, but I'm not sure which one") But even I only love Finnish that much. My love for other languages is more about not giving up even when I'm more interested in another lang. It seems to me that most people who believe into the "one language at a time" thing just aren't anywhere near a burnout. For example, right now we're halfway through the 6WC and my total is 166 hours. Is there anyone who's been consistently learning at this rate for 3-4 years, one language at a time? Also, let's write a wikia article about that already. Leosmith, can I quote your post there? Edited by Serpent on 21 May 2013 at 10:53am 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
 emk Diglot Moderator United States Joined 5330 days ago 2615 posts - 8806 votes Speaks: English*, FrenchB2 Studies: Spanish, Ancient Egyptian Personal Language Map | Message 32 of 77 21 May 2013 at 12:56pm | IP Logged | ||
I passed my B2 exam by a decent margin last June. But at the time, I couldn't really watch TV comfortably (except for Buffy), and reading required a deliberate effort. But I kept on plugging away at the Super Challenge, and sometime late last fall, I reached a level where I could watch a much wider range of TV series comfortably, and read more comfortably. I'm still at an awkward level between B2 and C1, but my French is much easier to maintain than it was at B2. So at least for me, the criteria might be: "B2 + the ability to watch a wide range of TV series for fun." 1 person has voted this message useful |
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