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  Tags: Discrimination
 Language Learning Forum : General discussion Post Reply
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eyðimörk
Triglot
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France
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 Message 73 of 119
02 January 2014 at 11:42am | IP Logged 
Zireael wrote:
I remember being given a blind map of the US (as a visual help) and being asked to note all the states. The teacher, who has been to the US several times, complimented us on listing nearly all states and said that most US folks would have trouble with a similar exercise with European countries. Not placing them on map. Just listing them.

Note that a country is much more important than a state - the Europeans being expected to know the US states is just like being expected to know all Russian oblasts. Unreasonable.

I had to do that as well, at age 15. All 50 states with the 50 state capitals. I remember that I got 98/100, but I doubt that I'd get even 50/100 today, almost 15 years later. I suspect how well people do on these things depends on at what point in their lives they were asked. I used to be very good with the geography of eastern Europe, too, back when it was Cold War history all day every day. Today I'm pretty sure I'd mess up a few countries on a blind map, at least if there was a time limit.
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Cavesa
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 Message 74 of 119
02 January 2014 at 1:10pm | IP Logged 
Fuenf_Katzen wrote:
Cavesa wrote:


Have you seen the scans of blind maps of Europe filled out by american students? Made me laugh. Of course, a lot of europeans may have trouble as well but it seems to be more of an issue when it comes to people in the US. While the whole world knows only the big american cities (after all, most aliens attack New York :-) ) there is a large % of people living in small rural towns and not caring much about education or outer world. We've got a lot of country people as well and I guess their views are the same in many ways. Why would they learn languages of people they don't want to meet and countries they have no intention to visit? And why should anyone they know learn a foreign language instead of doing what they consider to be fun and useful?




To be fair though, at the end of November the thing going around Facebook was scans of US maps filled in by British students. Poor Midwestern states--nobody knows where they are!

I've never actually heard anyone here say that learning other languages was unpatriotic. I've heard a lot of offensive remarks about other countries and cultures, but the one thing that nobody has criticized was my decision to learn other languages. I'm sure that attitude exists, but I doubt it's very widespread. Most people here are more likely to just not see the point in learning languages than to be outright hostile toward them.


Well, of course the USA is more important than some tiny countries in Europe, like mine for example. But the individual states inside the USA are not important for anyone outside the USA at all, why should they be? The USA is a world power, not Mississipi or Colorado or the Rhode Island. Noone cares about those, it's the USA that matters. Just as quite noone cares about the inner parts of Russia or China. The USA students weren't able to identify even some of the large European countries, which is pretty said.

The american tv series are much better at PR of individual cities than the states. While half Europe knows the New York city nearly as if they had been there, they would be hard pressed to answer whether there is as well a state called New York.

It's true that even some Europeans struggle with European countries knowledge. I once met a German student who didn't know where the Czech Republic was, which is quite sad considering it being a neighbouring country. But the truth is that I believe our republic should never have been divided from the A-U empire so I am not that surprised :-D

I have personally met people who may not say out loud "It is unpatriotic and wrong to learn another language", because they would be taken for fools in this country, but they cover it a bit more subtly. Views such as "They should learn proper Czech before trying another language" are sometimes being heard. Totally stupid. And this is one of the coutries where noone can doubt value of foreign language knowledge.



Edited by Cavesa on 02 January 2014 at 1:12pm

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Serpent
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 Message 75 of 119
02 January 2014 at 3:39pm | IP Logged 
stelingo wrote:
Serpent wrote:
There's a famous fail when Zhirkov was asked how he communicates with Roberto Carlos and other Brazilian teammates, and he was like "yeah, they don't speak Russian or English, only Brazilian". And it wasn't just a slip of the tongue or anything, it seems like he honestly thought there are two different languages, Portuguese and Brazilian. And it's not like he can prove his point by using the Swadesh lists or pronunciation differences...


But I've come across Brazilians who insist that they speak Brazilian and not Portuguese.
He said this out of ignorance though. I respect Brazilians' right to consider it a separate language, but they can pull out 235435 examples to prove their point. That's completely different. Even the most die-hard linguistic separatist will admit that X years ago Brazil and Portugal definitely spoke the same language, no matter how they view what happened later and which number they would substitute for X here.

To give him the benefit of doubt, maybe he's heard enough of the languages to conclude that they sound completely different. This alone doesn't make Brazilian a separate language though, it's just the accent.

Cavesa, great post as always! <3

Edited by Serpent on 02 January 2014 at 3:44pm

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Einarr
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 Message 76 of 119
02 January 2014 at 5:25pm | IP Logged 
Speaking of countries/states/divisions of a certain nation I found that it's sometimes
baffling for the people of my own country to distinguish between the separate nations
within the United Kingdom for instance. Sometimes when I communicate with relatives I
have a minor geography lesson prepared beforehand in order for me to explain that The
United Kingdom is actually officially, United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern
Ireland, which consists of three different countries, namely Scotland, Wales and
England, which make up Great Britain and then there's Northern Ireland. Once the lesson
reaches Northern Ireland it gets more complicated, because they have to divide between
it and Ireland alone which is an independent country.

The fact is that most countryman associate the UK with England alone, and little do
they know how it can be very offensive indeed if you should call a Welsh person English
or a Scotsman British. So basically my two cents would be that ignorance is pretty much
present everywhere, and then you have the magnitude it reaches that gets to make things
shameful.
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Serpent
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 Message 77 of 119
02 January 2014 at 5:31pm | IP Logged 
It's certainly important to know that the UK doesn't equal England, but how is a Scotsman not British? Isn't British the proper default term to use if you don't know where in the UK someone is from?
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QiuJP
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 Message 78 of 119
02 January 2014 at 6:12pm | IP Logged 
1e4e6 wrote:
I would feel extremely embarassed if I thought that Paris, the capital of France, were
instead the capital of Chile, Greece, Malaysia, or New Zealand.


I, for once, make a similar mistake:

I actually state that "Moscow is the capital of the Earth Federation" when I meant "Moscow is the capital of Russian Federation", and that angered some Japanese in a forum. Maybe subconsciously I want Russia to dominate the world...
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Einarr
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 Message 79 of 119
02 January 2014 at 6:15pm | IP Logged 
Serpent wrote:
It's certainly important to know that the UK doesn't equal England, but
how is a Scotsman not British? Isn't British the proper default term to use if you don't
know where in the UK someone is from?


Yes, surely, when abroad I don't think it will be a problem whatsoever to address someone
from the UK as a Brit alone, as long as you don't know from which country of the UK
exactly do they come from. What I wrote goes mostly for the happening if one is in, say,
Scotland/Wales/Northern Ireland and call a Scot/Welsh/Irish person British or English
just because they're in the UK.

Edited by Einarr on 02 January 2014 at 6:18pm

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stelingo
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 Message 80 of 119
02 January 2014 at 6:16pm | IP Logged 
culebrilla wrote:
stelingo wrote:
fabriciocarraro wrote:
culebrilla wrote:
Most people don't know that Portuguese is spoken in Angola, Mozambique, Capo Verde, and Macau, for example.


I'd say that most people don't know that Portuguese is spoken in Brazil... if I earned 1 real each time that someone asked if we spoke Spanish...haha


When I was doing a Portuguese course in Rio in 2008 there was a Welsh woman there. She had come to work as a volunteer in the favelas but was having 2 weeks language classes first. She had told everybody back home she was looking forward to learning some Spanish, and only discovered she would be learning Portuguese once she had arrived!


No way. That can't be a true story, right? Crazy. Maybe she was joking?


No, I'm afraid to say she wasn't


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