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 Language Learning Forum : General discussion |  | |
| Cristianoo Triglot Senior Member Brazil https://projetopoligRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 3915 days ago 175 posts - 289 votes  Speaks: Portuguese*, FrenchB2, English Studies: Russian | Message 97 of 119 03 January 2014 at 3:06pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
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@Cavesa - I agree.
To me, English is a tool and the fact it is well spread and well known by intelectuals doesn't make it guaranteed against extinction. Just look what happend with Latin. But if it's going or not to last forever is not the issue. The point is: English seems to be a big brickwall for those trying to escape being monolingual forever and that's what (i think) Cavesa is talking about. And it's true. I've learned English for that reason: with it, I have access to a lot of stuff and countries and persons. Even now I'm using it to talk to you guys. So English is a must learning nowadays. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Solfrid Cristin Heptaglot Winner TAC 2011 & 2012 Senior Member Norway Joined 5128 days ago 4143 posts - 8864 votes Speaks: Norwegian*, Spanish, Swedish, French, English, German, Italian Studies: Russian | Message 98 of 119 03 January 2014 at 3:18pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
No. They don't. Some Portuguese understand Spanish and some Spaniards understand Portuguese, but it us not like Swedish and Norwegian where the languages are so close that most people understand 95% of what is said. I have been to Portugal with a Spanish friend, and the only way we could order food was by pointing to the food of the others. And I spoke Spanish and French at a near native level at the time, and had a fairly high level in Italian. I had however never had any exposure to Portuguese, and until I got more exposure, I understood very little. In writing you may understand quite a bit, but when you are unprepared and inexperienced and are at the receiving end of rapid fire Portuguese you most certainly do not understand. Now that I have had a little bit more exposure, and particularly if I speak with someone who is willing to slow down and perhaps inject a few Spanish words, I am fine and can understand up to 70%. But the languages are not as close as you think. 4 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||
| fabriciocarraro Hexaglot Winner TAC 2012 Senior Member Brazil russoparabrasileirosRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 4509 days ago 989 posts - 1454 votes Speaks: Portuguese*, EnglishB2, Italian, Spanish, Russian, French Studies: Dutch, German, Japanese | Message 99 of 119 03 January 2014 at 5:35pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
I assume he was taking about Brazilian Portuguese, whose pronunciation is much closer to (Latin American) Spanish than European Portuguese to any kind of Spanish. But still, while we Brazilians tend to understand Spanish somewhat (to the point that sometimes they don't even subtitle or dub it on TV), not all of us do so (especially with Argentinian Spanish, which sounds like a mess =P), and I've noticed that the opposite is not true, Latin Americans usually have difficulties understanding Brazilian Portuguese accent, so yes, it's definitely not like Swedish and Norwegian. 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||
| culebrilla Senior Member United States Joined 3791 days ago 246 posts - 436 votes Speaks: Spanish | Message 100 of 119 03 January 2014 at 6:03pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
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There was a scientific study done regarding intelligibility between Spanish speakers and Portuguese speakers. Pretty high for different languages but if there is an emergency or a need for very accurate interpretation, I would not be comfortable speaking with a Portuguese speaker. Writing, a lot more so. But even then some things would be missed if the false friends weren't known.
Spanish speaker understanding Portuguese: It was like 50%. Portuguese speaker understanding Spanish speaker: It was like 58%. The difference was statistically significant. Edit: Go to the link the page for the study. The direct pdf link wouldn't work for some reason. http://robertlindsay.wordpress.com/2009/02/08/mutual-intelli gibility-in-the-romance-languages/ Edited by culebrilla on 03 January 2014 at 6:12pm 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Chung Diglot Senior Member Joined 6950 days ago 4228 posts - 8259 votes 20 sounds Speaks: English*, French Studies: Polish, Slovak, Uzbek, Turkish, Korean, Finnish | Message 101 of 119 03 January 2014 at 6:47pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
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I think that the study is here with the relevant conclusion here. The experiment revealed that Spanish and Portuguese are 50%-60% mutually intelligible in situations involving passive listening to electronically reproduced voices. Figures for intelligibility involving live conversation are different but not given in the study.
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| Gemuse Senior Member Germany Joined 3876 days ago 818 posts - 1189 votes Speaks: English Studies: German | Message 102 of 119 03 January 2014 at 10:38pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
Isnt that amount of understanding good enough? I based my statements on a couple of Portuguese acquaintances. Regarding Spaniards, they said that Spaniards understand what the Portuguese are saying, but pretend not to. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Gemuse Senior Member Germany Joined 3876 days ago 818 posts - 1189 votes Speaks: English Studies: German | Message 103 of 119 03 January 2014 at 10:49pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
But that French stereotype is true (I dont know how you got a racist vibe). A (very basic french speaking) friend of mine, after living in a region where French was spoken told me he had finally found a secret to communicating in English (when the Frenchperson also knew English). "parlez vous anglai?" almost never worked. Its only when he spoke in broken French, murdering the language, that the Frenchperson would start speaking in (good) English. I have similar anecdotes from other people. Edited by Gemuse on 03 January 2014 at 10:51pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Chung Diglot Senior Member Joined 6950 days ago 4228 posts - 8259 votes 20 sounds Speaks: English*, French Studies: Polish, Slovak, Uzbek, Turkish, Korean, Finnish | Message 104 of 119 03 January 2014 at 11:30pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
Good enough for what? Buying groceries where the produce or food is visible to both buyer and seller (with linguistic divergence smoothed over by body language/sign language/pointing)? Talking over the telephone about plans for the evening? (without the benefit of body language) Making small talk about a football game? Participating in a discussion on politics?
That's a pretty small sample size, wouldn't you agree? This whole debate reminds me of the thread here where one Turk was insinuating that Turkish and Kazakh are highly mutually intelligible (and then backpedalling or muddying things up a bit by stating that they can have basic conversations if they talk slowly) (define "basic conversation"), and then a couple more Turks and a Kazakh contradicted him stating the intelligibility is a lot lower. 3 persons have voted this message useful |
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