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119 messages over 15 pages: << Previous 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 ... 12 ... 14 15 Next >>
fabriciocarraro
Hexaglot
Winner TAC 2012
Senior Member
Brazil
russoparabrasileirosRegistered users can see my Skype Name
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989 posts - 1454 votes 
Speaks: Portuguese*, EnglishB2, Italian, Spanish, Russian, French
Studies: Dutch, German, Japanese

 
 Message 89 of 119
03 January 2014 at 4:14am | IP Logged 
1e4e6 wrote:
...and that the grammatical constructions
were odd to him, i.e. he said that he never heard anyone say to him, Ver-vos-ei
amanhã, but that he saw things like that in an old book.


Indeed hahaha you'll never ever hear a Brazilian say something like that, unless when making a joke. I'm not 100% sure, but I think that even Portuguese people don't speak like that... it's a veeeery (old) bookish language.
2 persons have voted this message useful



Gemuse
Senior Member
Germany
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818 posts - 1189 votes 
Speaks: English
Studies: German

 
 Message 90 of 119
03 January 2014 at 12:15pm | IP Logged 
Cristianoo wrote:

I don't know why we get so bothered, but we do. Well I do... if someone say that he
knows we speak portuguese and asks me if he could speak Spanish with me, I would gladly
accept that... but I find it rude when someone assumes that we speak Spanish and start
to talk in Spanish right away. Am I being childish?


Come on now, dont be like the French. Portuguese and Spanish are very close. Portuguese
people understand Spanish and Spanish folk understand Portuguese.
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Gemuse
Senior Member
Germany
Joined 3877 days ago
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Speaks: English
Studies: German

 
 Message 91 of 119
03 January 2014 at 12:18pm | IP Logged 
1e4e6 wrote:

Also I notice that quite a few seem to speak below B1 Spanish to people in Portugsl
because they do not know Portuguese, just because probably Spanish have more speakers,
Spain are a bordering country, and Spain have more political influence. But I think
that this would simply be especially insulting to a Portuguese person, especially given
that Portugal and Spain have been competing countries throughout history. It is like
saying, "I do not know your language, but I know a bit of an 80% related language of a
political
rival that you may or may not know how to speak, so I shall speak to you therewith even
though my speech is broken and hopefully you can communicate with me."


The alternative to the aforementioned broken communication is no communication at all
(I am assuming no English).
1 person has voted this message useful



Gemuse
Senior Member
Germany
Joined 3877 days ago
818 posts - 1189 votes 
Speaks: English
Studies: German

 
 Message 92 of 119
03 January 2014 at 12:36pm | IP Logged 
Cavesa wrote:

The thing is that this approach could have worked until now. But the US isn't the
economical power it used to be. The UK surely isn't the world leader any more. Spanish
speaking countries + Brazil are rising, so is India and other asian countries. And in
all those countries, there are people who are just as good at their fields as the
monolingual americans or british. And they know at least two languages. The English
native monolingual patriots may find themselves on the wrong side of the language
barrier in a few decades.


But there isnt any commom language amongst Spain, Brazil, India, China etc other than
English. English is, and will remain the dominant language for the next several
decades.
Reasons:
1. The science base in US is huge. It must be understood by any competent
engineer/doctor. English has become the defacto language in science. This means that
all the smart people know English. This has a trickle down effect.
2. Hollywood.
1 person has voted this message useful



Serpent
Octoglot
Senior Member
Russian Federation
serpent-849.livejour
Joined 6392 days ago
9753 posts - 15779 votes 
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Speaks: Russian*, English, FinnishC1, Latin, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese
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 Message 93 of 119
03 January 2014 at 1:06pm | IP Logged 
Gemuse wrote:
1e4e6 wrote:

Also I notice that quite a few seem to speak below B1 Spanish to people in Portugsl
because they do not know Portuguese, just because probably Spanish have more speakers,
Spain are a bordering country, and Spain have more political influence. But I think
that this would simply be especially insulting to a Portuguese person, especially given
that Portugal and Spain have been competing countries throughout history. It is like
saying, "I do not know your language, but I know a bit of an 80% related language of a
political
rival that you may or may not know how to speak, so I shall speak to you therewith even
though my speech is broken and hopefully you can communicate with me."


The alternative to the aforementioned broken communication is no communication at all
(I am assuming no English).
When broken Spanish is really the only common language, that's probably okay. But I bet many people who do this want to "practise" and "improve" their broken Spanish.

Edited by Serpent on 03 January 2014 at 2:23pm
1 person has voted this message useful



gRodriguez
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Speaks: Portuguese*, EnglishC2, Galician
Studies: Spanish, Japanese

 
 Message 94 of 119
03 January 2014 at 1:14pm | IP Logged 
Gemuse wrote:
Cristianoo wrote:

I don't know why we get so bothered, but we do. Well I do... if someone say that he
knows we speak portuguese and asks me if he could speak Spanish with me, I would gladly
accept that... but I find it rude when someone assumes that we speak Spanish and start
to talk in Spanish right away. Am I being childish?


Come on now, dont be like the French. Portuguese and Spanish are very close. Portuguese
people understand Spanish and Spanish folk understand Portuguese.


That's not true, I always have been able to understand as a B1-B2 level and don't forget that Brazilian Portuguese is much more similar to Spanish than Portugal's Portuguese. And when I speak clear, not very fast paced, Portuguese they don't understand a thing on what I am trying to say (they understand some words, but generally don't get the message).
One more thing, you probably didn't mean to, but you sounded racist on the French comment.

Edited by gRodriguez on 03 January 2014 at 1:15pm
2 persons have voted this message useful



gRodriguez
Triglot
Groupie
BrazilRegistered users can see my Skype Name
Joined 3823 days ago
44 posts - 56 votes 
Speaks: Portuguese*, EnglishC2, Galician
Studies: Spanish, Japanese

 
 Message 95 of 119
03 January 2014 at 1:17pm | IP Logged 
gRodriguez wrote:
Gemuse wrote:
Cristianoo wrote:

I don't know why we get so bothered, but we do. Well I do... if someone say that he
knows we speak portuguese and asks me if he could speak Spanish with me, I would gladly
accept that... but I find it rude when someone assumes that we speak Spanish and start
to talk in Spanish right away. Am I being childish?


Come on now, dont be like the French. Portuguese and Spanish are very close. Portuguese
people understand Spanish and Spanish folk understand Portuguese.


That's not true, I always have been able to understand as a B1-B2 level and don't forget that Brazilian Portuguese is much more similar to Spanish than Portugal's Portuguese. And when I speak clear, not very fast paced, Portuguese they(Hispanics) don't understand a thing on what I am trying to say (they understand some words, but generally don't get the message).
One more thing, you probably didn't mean to, but you sounded racist on the French comment.

1 person has voted this message useful



Cavesa
Triglot
Senior Member
Czech Republic
Joined 4804 days ago
3277 posts - 6779 votes 
Speaks: Czech*, FrenchC2, EnglishC1
Studies: Spanish, German, Italian

 
 Message 96 of 119
03 January 2014 at 2:21pm | IP Logged 
Gemuse wrote:
Cavesa wrote:

The thing is that this approach could have worked until now. But the US isn't the
economical power it used to be. The UK surely isn't the world leader any more. Spanish
speaking countries + Brazil are rising, so is India and other asian countries. And in
all those countries, there are people who are just as good at their fields as the
monolingual americans or british. And they know at least two languages. The English
native monolingual patriots may find themselves on the wrong side of the language
barrier in a few decades.


But there isnt any commom language amongst Spain, Brazil, India, China etc other than
English. English is, and will remain the dominant language for the next several
decades.
Reasons:
1. The science base in US is huge. It must be understood by any competent
engineer/doctor. English has become the defacto language in science. This means that
all the smart people know English. This has a trickle down effect.
2. Hollywood.


I wasn't saying "People shouldn't learn English". My point was that even English natives may find themselves in situations when their monolingualism will be an obstacle and the number of such situations will rise in the decades to come.

Yes, most things get published in English (including things by other scientists than those based in the US) but there are things which are not published in English earlier than several (or more) years since being first published in another large language. I have seen quite a lot of examples in areas I am interested in (mostly related to a voluntary work for a non profit organisation concerning a certain kind of patients). And in some cases, I could easily find sources in French or in German (which is one of the reasons why I am working on my German) where there was nothing in the common English sources. Because the French (+other francophone) and German (+ other German speaking) scientists have their own rich and large communities (unlike the scientists in small countries with small languages) and their own, US independent, money sources they need to inform first. And, based on what I heard from people knowing much more about Asia than I do, this not-yet-in-English zone is much larger when it comes to Japanese, Chinese or Korean. And it may be much larger in just a decade or two.

And it's not just the science. You obviously need more languages in a large part of the world of business. If it wasn't the truth, there wouldn't be such a demand for highly qualified people who can speak English AND another large language.

What does Hollywood have in common with this? Again, my point wasn't "Peeple shouldn't learn English", my point wasn't "English is going to die out during the next fifty years", that is nonsense. But even the largest and most popular entertainment factory in the world won't matter more than money and (not only) business opportunities, should they arise enough. It protects the English monolinguals well for now but it may turn out to be a similar complication to the general population's (needed) education in future, just as the popularity of dubbing is the obstacle in the Czech Republic now. And who knows, Hollywood may produce part of the production in Spanish in twenty years from now, should there be the demand from a large and strong minority in the US.


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