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Next adventure: Mandarin - 鹊 TAC’14 | ||
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| Flarioca Heptaglot Senior Member Brazil Joined 5880 days ago 635 posts - 816 votes  Speaks: Portuguese*, Esperanto, French, EnglishC2, Spanish, German, Italian Studies: Catalan, Mandarin | Message 25 of 128 06 April 2013 at 6:25pm | IP Logged | ||
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When you see a table like ChinesePod Pinyin Chart it's very clear that some consonants cannot be followed by some finals.
In the book "The Sounds of Chinese" this conclusion is reinforced and we learn that some consonants could be taken as "allophones", namely j/q/x on one side and z/c/s (plus zh/ch/sh and g/k/h) on the other. This seems to make Mandarin phonetics somewhat easier for me, because, for instance, the differences between q/ch and x/sh are not so easy to get. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
 jeff_lindqvist Diglot Moderator SwedenRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 6907 days ago 4250 posts - 5711 votes Speaks: Swedish*, English Studies: German, Spanish, Russian, Dutch, Mandarin, Esperanto, Irish, French Personal Language Map | Message 26 of 128 06 April 2013 at 10:51pm | IP Logged | ||
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The latter in each pair - ch and sh - is retroflex, as is zh (if that helps).
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| Flarioca Heptaglot Senior Member Brazil Joined 5880 days ago 635 posts - 816 votes Speaks: Portuguese*, Esperanto, French, EnglishC2, Spanish, German, Italian Studies: Catalan, Mandarin | Message 27 of 128 06 April 2013 at 11:19pm | IP Logged | ||
In the book "The Sounds of Chinese", Yen-Hwei Lin says on page 45 that it isn't consensual that zh/ch/sh are retroflex. Anyway, I'm trying to produce these consonants as if they were retroflex, because it seems easier for me to get closer to the correct sounds. I'd say that zh/ch/sh aren't hard to produce, j/q are slightly harder for me. However, I was thinking that q/ch and x/sh could be difficult to distinguish if it weren't the fact that they cannot be followed by the same finals. Edited by Flarioca on 07 April 2013 at 3:28am 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| jeff_lindqvist Diglot Moderator SwedenRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 6907 days ago 4250 posts - 5711 votes Speaks: Swedish*, English Studies: German, Spanish, Russian, Dutch, Mandarin, Esperanto, Irish, French Personal Language Map | Message 28 of 128 07 April 2013 at 12:12pm | IP Logged | ||
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For me, it's definitely easier to think of the consonants in groups of three (I don't know where I got that idea, though), so in my world ch is a retroflex version of q and so on. Others may describe them as being pronounced in the front of the mouth vs. the back of the mouth. Whatever works.
z - c - s j - q - x zh - ch - sh 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Flarioca Heptaglot Senior Member Brazil Joined 5880 days ago 635 posts - 816 votes Speaks: Portuguese*, Esperanto, French, EnglishC2, Spanish, German, Italian Studies: Catalan, Mandarin | Message 29 of 128 09 April 2013 at 3:46pm | IP Logged | ||
The Zhuyin keyboard is also divided in groups of three or four consonants: b/p/m/f (labials) d/t/n/l (dentals) g/k/h (velars) j/q/x (alveolo-palatals) zh/ch/sh/r (post-alveolars) z/c/s (dental affricates and fricative) Then, the glides and finals, also in a simple pattern: y|i/w|u/ü a/o/e/ê ai/ei/ao/ou an/en/ang/eng Edit: /o/ and /e/ were inverted. Edited by Flarioca on 10 April 2013 at 2:40am 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Flarioca Heptaglot Senior Member Brazil Joined 5880 days ago 635 posts - 816 votes Speaks: Portuguese*, Esperanto, French, EnglishC2, Spanish, German, Italian Studies: Catalan, Mandarin | Message 30 of 128 10 April 2013 at 4:12pm | IP Logged | ||
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CD 7 is finished. Each CD has been completed in 5 days, which means that the first MT Total Mandarin will probably be completed within 40 days. After that, there are 2 vocabulary CDs, about which I don't know anything. I hope to finish the whole MT Mandarin in about three months.
My phonetical/phonological studies are also progressing well. To tell you the truth, I'd say that 50% of the mnemonics suggested in the MT course are useless for me. But that's how mnemonics work. The problem is that, since I'm following the advice of not reinforce anything, I've no time to work on better mnemonics. Anyway, I'll relearn all these words and their corresponding characters and then I'll be concerned about memorizing everything for good, with the glorious help of SRS. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Flarioca Heptaglot Senior Member Brazil Joined 5880 days ago 635 posts - 816 votes Speaks: Portuguese*, Esperanto, French, EnglishC2, Spanish, German, Italian Studies: Catalan, Mandarin | Message 31 of 128 12 April 2013 at 4:34pm | IP Logged | ||
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There is this video on Youtube that I'm going to use also in order to train pronunciation. Somewhat repetitive ... but it seems exactly what must be done now! However its sound needs some "audacityfication".
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| Flarioca Heptaglot Senior Member Brazil Joined 5880 days ago 635 posts - 816 votes Speaks: Portuguese*, Esperanto, French, EnglishC2, Spanish, German, Italian Studies: Catalan, Mandarin | Message 32 of 128 13 April 2013 at 11:35pm | IP Logged | ||
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After the MT lessons of the day and my Zhuyin Anki little session, I've decided to listen to something in Mandarin.
Of course, I cannot yet understand anything. My idea was just to let my ears get used to natural (or sort of) Mandarin. I must admit that although Mandarin is not my favourite sounding language, I'm enjoying it more and more. Anyway, besides some few words I could understand (wo de, wo men, bu shi, mei you etc.), I've learned two new words which appeared way too often during the sending from iTings FM: One that sounded like ㄉㄧ ㄈㄤ˙ /difang/ 提防 (to defend from) and another that almost certainly is ㄉㄨㄟˋ /dui/ 对 (right, correct). EDIT: Ops, dui4 is on MT TM CD7 Track 8 and I should already know it ... my bad. Edited by Flarioca on 13 April 2013 at 11:45pm 1 person has voted this message useful |
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