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Ungrateful Natives | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Cultural Experiences in Foreign Languages |  | |
| chelovek Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 6084 days ago 413 posts - 461 votes  5 sounds Speaks: English*, French Studies: Russian | Message 17 of 139 15 December 2008 at 4:50pm | IP Logged | ||
Gotta agree with you here. Although it's definitely inappropriate for people to mock someone who is actively trying to learn their language, I wouldn't EXPECT people to be grateful that I was learning their language. Context is important too, though. If you were in an academic or work environment and people expected that you already knew their language, negative reactions to your mistakes wouldn't be all that surprising. For instance, I tend to have negative reactions toward foreigners in my university classes that speak poor English. I suppose my (unfortunate) assumption is that they aren't improving and are simply satisfied with their current poor level of English. It's also worth considering that you (the people who've encountered this problem) have simply paid more attention to the negative events, instead of noticing all of the times people were thrilled or helpful toward you. However...I will say that in Europe, I've undoubtedly had more negative experiences with Francophones than positive ones. Although there were only a few instances where I felt as though they were being conceited or hostile, in general I found that they were more interested in using their English with me than letting me use my French with them, even when they knew I was trying to improve. Edited by chelovek on 15 December 2008 at 6:21pm 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| tricoteuse Pentaglot Senior Member Norway littlang.blogspot.co Joined 6675 days ago 745 posts - 845 votes Speaks: Swedish*, Norwegian, EnglishC1, Russian, French Studies: Ukrainian, Bulgarian | Message 18 of 139 15 December 2008 at 5:09pm | IP Logged | ||
Hm. I've only ever used French in France, but whenever I open my mouth there people are very happy and treat me like one of them and are probably relieved that they didn't have to speak English. I've never ever gotten any negative remarks there either, the farthest anyone has gone to say something about my French was after 6 months with "well they can hear that you are not from here and they will help you" (when I was worried about not finding something in town). Oh, come to think of it I have used French in Norway :P But here they are equally super relieved and *grateful* that they didn't have to struggle along in Norwegian while barely understanding my Swedish... I think that the only time a Russian has laughed at my butchered Russian was when I said I was baking liver instead of baking cookies. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Eimii Groupie United States Joined 5829 days ago 44 posts - 47 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Russian, Polish | Message 19 of 139 15 December 2008 at 6:11pm | IP Logged | ||
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I think I would expect more gratitude than criticism (going against some of the other opinions). I think the majority of people (excluding language learners) would prefer to speak their native language in all situations because it's just easier. Rather than, "oh, your Slovakian sucks, let's criticize you so you don't try to even speak to us anymore/so you speak in English next time." Maybe because you have a good accent, they think you've been studying for longer?
I just can't understand those people. Even though English is so big and learned by so many people, I'm still overly supportive of every non-native person I speak to. What zerothinking said might be plausible. I have a friend from Bulgaria and she speaks perfect English. Though, when she makes a mistake, I make fun of her. But she tells me to because she remembers and learns quicker when I really point it out.
Good to hear. 3 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| parasitius Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 5995 days ago 220 posts - 323 votes Speaks: English*, Mandarin Studies: Cantonese, Polish, Spanish, French | Message 20 of 139 15 December 2008 at 8:08pm | IP Logged | ||
This is exactly why all such social problems dealing with people you only encounter for a moment are difficult. I, for example, can't stop and explain to a billion individual Chinese that I just gave a very cold reception to his "hello" because I feel he is mocking me much more than he has any legitimate interest in saying anything of value to me. Here's my idea though it ain't field tested: (1) If you only exchange 2 sentences with someone and will never encounter them again, it's not worth it, you just have to suck it up and forget it. (2) If it is someone you have very little interaction with but which you will encounter again and again (in a shop, etc.) it may be worth the effort to say something in a stern but friendly way like "Well I think you'll gain the right to criticize me when you master [your native lang.] first and don't make any mistakes speaking." (3) Obviously anyone you'll talk to extensively you can just give a whole paragraph explanation of honest "I don't feel you're being fair making fun of me." etc.. 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| rlf1810 Triglot Senior Member United States Joined 6337 days ago 122 posts - 173 votes Speaks: English*, German, Slovak | Message 21 of 139 16 December 2008 at 2:36am | IP Logged | ||
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There's some good points made in this thread.
I guess at the end of the day it just comes down to 'why am I learning this language?'. In my case, it's not for anyone else but myself, so I guess I'm just gonna have to let the ridicule go in one ear and out the other. Of course, easier said than done.. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| FuroraCeltica Triglot Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 6862 days ago 1187 posts - 1427 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish, French | Message 22 of 139 16 December 2008 at 5:08am | IP Logged | ||
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I always start a conversation in Brussels with the words "Parlez-vous français of spreekt u Nederlands?". My logic is it is bi-lingual, therefore nice to give people the choice. I have had a few people give me a very harsh "français" remark in response to that question. No big deal, as I speak both, but sometimes it can be a bit sad.
My sister is learning French, and came to visit me the other day, and we went to Brugges. She asked a guy at the museum for "quatre s'il vous plait" and got rather annoyed when he just stared blankly at her. I explained her French was perfect, his frosty reception was more due to the tense language situation here. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Delodephius Bilingual Tetraglot Senior Member Yugoslavia Joined 5400 days ago 342 posts - 501 votes Speaks: Slovak*, Serbo-Croatian*, EnglishC1, Czech Studies: Russian, Japanese | Message 23 of 139 09 February 2010 at 2:55pm | IP Logged | ||
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As a Slovak outside of Slovakia who has been to Slovakia and knows Slovaks who have been here and what I heard from my Slovaks that have been to Slovakia, I can tell that Slovaks from Slovakia are a bit of arsholes when it comes to people speaking Slovak a bit differently. My theory, and also a theory of most people I know, is that Slovaks from Slovakia (or Highlanders as we refer to them since we are Lowlanders) spend too much time in school learning Slovak (I mean most Highlanders speak perfect Slovak, their grammar is perfect) and appear as if they were brainwashed. To us Lowlanders who speak in all different manners, the Highlanders all speak the same way, same tone and depth of voice, all children speak the same, all adults speak the same, all old people speak the same, all women, all men. When a Highlander opens his mouth even if you cannot see him or her you know what age he or she is. We say they are all made from the same mould.
So when you go to Slovakia and don't speak the same perfect way they all do then naturally they will make fun of you because you are different then they are and they are all the same, mostly. In Serbia the situation is quite the opposite. Serbs have a saying: "Speak Serbian so that the whole world can understand you". Serbs will even try to help you learn Serbian, even if you just sit with them for 10 minutes in a bar. They are thrilled their "evil plan to dominate the world" is slowly making progress. :-D 4 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| datsunking1 Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 5582 days ago 1014 posts - 1533 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish Studies: German, Russian, Dutch, French | Message 24 of 139 09 February 2010 at 3:29pm | IP Logged | ||
I get laughed at sometimes when I make a mistake, (sometimes they really are STUPID ones) but I try to laugh it off too, and the natives usually kindly correct me and explain WHY it is that way. I love it and I'm very greatful for how they treat me. I've heard a lot of people (monolingual Americans) say that Latin Americans (Native Spanish Speakers) are extremely rude, mean, etc. Honestly, Every one that I've met has be unbelievably kind and helpful. They took me "under their wing." It's amazing what a little knowledge of someone's language can do for you. Never let anything discourage you, there are nice and mean native speakers everywhere. I hear the French are the most critical, where Italians and Spanish speakers will just be happy you're trying. :) Best of luck to you! Jordan 2 persons have voted this message useful |
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