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BAnna’s TAC 2014 Spaß-Lobo-IndRussian | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Language Learning Log |  | |
| BAnna Triglot Senior Member United States Joined 4620 days ago 409 posts - 616 votes  Speaks: English*, German, Spanish Studies: Russian, Turkish | Message 201 of 236 28 July 2014 at 12:28am | IP Logged | ||
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Although I'm immersed in German because of my class (fun and it's getting a bit more manageable, but still very challenging), have also making time for Spanish and Russian. Russian has definitely been put on the back burner until the German class ends on the 9th. Then I'll focus on Russian for a month or so until the next German class starts up. Spanish is fairly easy to maintain, but to improve my grammar, I need to find some time to do some very focused study in that area. Hmm, not sure when I'll do that? I speak at least an hour a day of Spanish, but it's hard to find the motivation to do grammar work, although once I start I do enjoy it.
We'll soon be having a visitor from Germany staying with us for two weeks and undoubtedly will end up speaking in a combination of English and German. And it's looking more like I'll be making a business trip to Switzerland this year. I'll put a summary at the end of the month. I've been trying to stay off the forum and just study/read/watch/listen, but I did just read through the team members logs (not too difficult since it's Summer and it seems many are taking a break). What did take a lot of time: reading the avalanche of messages on the Super Challenge thread. It turns out news and especially audio news doesn't count, which is disappointing for me because Russian news without subtitles is one of the few things in that language I can view/listen with some modicum of comprehension, but so be it. Not a big deal since I'm doing the challenge for fun and for the nifty tracking on Twitter. Completing the Superchallenge in Russian is not my primary goal but rather a means to actually learn Russian (my true goal), and I'm ok with it being a slow process. I have no plans to visit there or try to read any literature in the foreseeable future, so I'm content for now to just be a putterer in that language. I'll continue to listen to the BBC Russian podcast, but I won't log it any more. My twitter skills are sadly lacking, so I don't even know how I'd go about deleting it. Should some miracle occur and I complete the Russian challenge, I'll need to put an asterisk by name or something that a bunch of stuff shouldn't count. It's probably only 2-3 hours of content if that. I'm also not going to try and delete the one news show I watched in Spanish, since for that one I actually recorded it, watched it twice (but counted it once) and took notes on interesting words and phrases, plus I usually watch the news in Spanish every day, not to mention soccer games, none of which I've counted. I wish there were a way to specify "don't count me in the rankings", so we'd have a nice place to log all the content, but I guess I can just do that on an Excel spreadsheet or something. Not going to worry about it. It's really interesting to me that many (most?) people find audio harder to pay attention to, and I find the opposite. TV series and films are very hard for me to stay focused on, while I can listen to audio completely enraptured for quite a long time. When listening to an audiobook in the car, I've parked at my destination and sat for 10 or more minutes to keep listening to a good part. When I listen I see pictures in my head, and I have to think that creates a strong connection between language and images. Although I did read and agree with Jeffers' post about how watching non-dubbed, live action native material is really great for picking up native body language and more natural speech patterns. A mixture of media is probably optimal. The more language exposure, the better. A number of people in my German class have taken or are planning to take a language examination. It's not anything I've thought about doing, but now I've started thinking about it. It could be a way to focus my study or to motivate me to work on skills I avoid (...writing). I'll try to search here to see people's opinions about Exams, but if anyone reading this has an opinion (or would be kind enough to point me to a thread), that'd be great. Hmm, I meant this to be quite short, but rambled on...Cheers 'til next time. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| patrickwilken Senior Member Germany radiant-flux.net Joined 4531 days ago 1546 posts - 3200 votes Studies: German | Message 202 of 236 28 July 2014 at 8:24am | IP Logged | ||
Interesting to hear that there has been a ton of messages on the SC board. Reinforces my decision not to be part of it this time round, but I guess if people find it motivating to study then good for them.
Personally I avoid exams unless there are a good reason to pass them (certificate for work/visa etc), but I know they can be motivating, and they could force you to look for certain weaknesses in your study. EMK has written a lot about his experiences studying for B2 in French, and he might be the best person to approach. 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| BAnna Triglot Senior Member United States Joined 4620 days ago 409 posts - 616 votes Speaks: English*, German, Spanish Studies: Russian, Turkish | Message 203 of 236 02 August 2014 at 4:37pm | IP Logged | ||
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Summary of July Update:
Read in Spanish- Finished up "La regenta" (classic novel) and read "Catorce ciudades contando Brooklyn" (collection of journalistic articles by Quim Monzó) , "Niebla" (philosophic novel by Miguel de Unamuno), "El fútbol a sol y sombra" (reflections on soccer by Eduardo Galeano). Began "La interpretadora de sueños" (ebook by Rafael Costas). Watched/listened in Spanish- Soccer-related: La vida según Galeano - Futbolerías, , Mesa Redonda: Copa Mundial 2014, 8 episodes of Fútbol Pasión, , Fútbol Picante, El principio del fin de la Copa Mundial, La otra cara del Mundial, various games (not counted in SC) Other: films: Dulce de Leche, La Revolución Mexicana, El violetero, Miral, Audiobook: El dilema de Trino (Young Adult), podcast: Buscando a Sherlock - Fallo de sistema, series: Flaman c9-12, Voces:Mujeres- Eduardo Galeano, Mundo al natural: Yellowstone Otoño, La Regenta Ep1,Horizontes-Legado de César Milstein, El tiempo entre costuras-Ep1 & 2 Read in German- "Verführungen"-I almost never stop reading midbook, but I really, really hated this book and gave up after 183 pages. Inside the mind of an unhappy, whiny, neurotic single mother. Blech. "Vierzig Rosen": set in Switzerland, read this for my class. Another not very happy woman, but a much better and more interesting book. Just started "Tauben fliegen auf", so far, so good, about a Hungarian immigrant family in Switzerland. Watched/listened in German: Audiobooks: first third of Die Blechtrommel (will come back to this at some point), Der Räuber Hotzenplotz Hörspiel, Tintenherz (16 discs-phew!) About children's/youth material: easy language to understand, (simpler grammar and fewer unknown words), but the two-dimensional characters and often the plots are not very interesting. I started off quite interested in Tintenherz, but ultimately came away not overly enthused. I'm not sure if I'll continue with the series. At least for now, I will not. Podcasts: Wie ein Vogel,der nicht landen kann, Mehr WIR im Westen/mehr ICH im Osten TV: Karl May-das letzte Rätsel, Brunetti:Die dunkle Stunde der Serenissima, Headhunters (Norwegian thriller dubbed into German), Der Räuber Hotzenplotz, Tatort- Das Wunder von Wolbeck, Zwei Herzen in der Brust-Deutschtürken auf Heimatsuche, Wo wohnt Deutschland?, Markus Lanz mit Maffay, Bushido, Sido und Precht. Panel-style talkshows like this one (Markus Lanz) are nice for a learner because they contain multi-person conversations (talking over each other, interrupting, etc.), especially if the topic is controversial or the people are outspoken. My houseguest has arrived from Germany. So far we have mostly spoken English, but also done a fair amount of code switching between languages. She also speaks Spanish, so we throw that into the mix as well. She can't understand why anyone would want to learn German... I will be doing the 6 week challenge in Russian, but will log only Russian study. Last time it took too much time to log everything. I feel like I need some discipline to study Russian since German study is taking over at the moment. My class ends in a week, so I should be able to concentrate on Russian until the next German class starts in September. The German class is ensuring that I write regularly, so definitely worth it. Edited by BAnna on 02 August 2014 at 4:38pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| patrickwilken Senior Member Germany radiant-flux.net Joined 4531 days ago 1546 posts - 3200 votes Studies: German | Message 204 of 236 02 August 2014 at 4:58pm | IP Logged | ||
I tried reading this a year ago but found it too hard, perhaps I should come back to it. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| BAnna Triglot Senior Member United States Joined 4620 days ago 409 posts - 616 votes Speaks: English*, German, Spanish Studies: Russian, Turkish | Message 205 of 236 19 August 2014 at 8:04am | IP Logged | ||
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My German houseguest (who speaks 5 languages to a high level) comes from a Turkish background and has been teaching me some elementary Turkish. Very cool! Somehow I have to find time to continue to study this language after she departs.
After reading Luso's post about maintaining languages and making choices of how to spend one's time, I am now thinking about just maintaining Spanish and German via native content and focus my actual study time on Russian (and probably Turkish). I was tempted by the thought of doing the C1 exams in German and Spanish, but that's not really necessary in my career or life plans, so at least for now I don't think the energy to be expended toward that goal would be worth it. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| patrickwilken Senior Member Germany radiant-flux.net Joined 4531 days ago 1546 posts - 3200 votes Studies: German | Message 206 of 236 19 August 2014 at 10:56am | IP Logged | ||
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You might find this article on the Turkish influence on German in Berlin interesting:
Herr Lehrer geht Kopierer I would think if you continue to read German you'll be improving your level, not just maintaining it. :) Edited by patrickwilken on 19 August 2014 at 10:58am 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| BAnna Triglot Senior Member United States Joined 4620 days ago 409 posts - 616 votes Speaks: English*, German, Spanish Studies: Russian, Turkish | Message 207 of 236 27 August 2014 at 5:29pm | IP Logged | ||
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August SC Grammar Assignment-Russian (Aspect of verbs)
Sources: textbook "Russian for Everybody" V. Kostomarov, Seventh Edition, 1994 and russianlessons.net. The Russian language has only three basic tenses. Present, past and future. However due to such simplicity we need to introduce the concept of aspects. There are two aspects in Russian. The imperfective aspect and the perfective aspect. Aspects are only used in the past and future tense. The Russian "читаю" is the equivalent of "I read, am reading, do read, have been reading." The past tense form "я читал(а)" is the equivalent of "I read, was reading, did read, used to read, would read". What can be expressed by the one-word form in Russian may require a verb phrase or may require the use of other words such as adverbs to express the same thing in English. Some of the different forms of the English past tense represent different ways of viewing the action: "was reading"-the action is viewed in progress (progressive meaning); "used to read, would read"-habitual meaning. These different meanings are expressed by "aspects"- the attitude or view which the speaker takes of the action being described. The Russian system of aspects is more developed than that of English, and aspect is expressed within the one-word form itself, without the help of other words. Compare "я читал(а)" (I read, was reading, did read, used to read, would read), with "я прочитал(а)" (I finished reading, read completely). Examples: Виктор читал книгу два часа. Victor read the book for two hours. Сейчас он прочитал книгу. Now he has finished reading the book. Этот театр строили год. It took them a year to build this theater. Сейчас театр уже построили. Now they have finished the theater. **Correction from Serpent: Маша долго показывала квартиру.** Masha showed the apartment for a long time. Когда она показала всю квартиру, они начали смотреть телевизор. When she had shown the apartment, they began watching TV. In learning the system of aspects, you do not need to learn any new endings or new types of conjugation. You will need instead to become used to paying attention to the type of action involved and the view of it being taken by the speaker. (Usually the forms of the two aspects are closely related. The two members of an aspect pair usually differ only in the presence or absence of a prefix or suffix). There are exceptions, however, for example Говорить, Сказать (talk, speak, say). The Russian aspects, imperfective and perfective, should not be viewed as opposites. The perfective can be defined very precisely, and everything which does not fit this definition will automatically be imperfective. The use of the perfective aspect indicates that the speaker views the action as a complete act of limited nature, a total event. Such an action has a definable result or consequence, produces a new state of affairs, and this result or new state of affairs is felt to be still in effect or relevant at the time of speech. A perfective verb views an action as accomplishment, rather than as process. Now examine the above examples with this definition in mind. In Виктор читал книгу два часа, (Victor read the book for two hours) the action is in the past, but it is not complete; it is viewed as a process (in its duration) rather than as a result or accomplishment. In Сейчас он прочитал книгу (Now he has read the book) the action is viewed as a single, total, complete event. It has a product (book finished), which has resulted in a new situation, making further reading impossible or meaningless. For a verb to have a perfective aspect it must represent a type of action which is capable of being viewed as a total event, a complete action whose conclusion represents an accomplishment and not just an interruption of the action. Verbs which indicate a continuing state of being or an action which does not lead to a definable result or change of state will not normally have perfective forms with this resultative meaning. Such verbs include быть, гулять, жить, знать, работать (be, stroll, live, know, work). These verbs represent a linear kind of action or state. Imperfective verbs in the past tense do not necessarily mean that the action is not complete, though this may be true; they simply make no statement concerning the completeness of the act. They indicate that it is not completeness which is being stressed by the speaker: Вы читали эту книгу? "Have you ever read this book?" Here it is simply a question of whether or not the action ever took place, whether or not the person addressed is acquainted with the book. If however, I knew that you had been reading the book and wanted to know whether you had finished it (perhaps I want to read it next), the question would be: Вы прочитали эту книгу? "Have you finished reading this book?" In addition to this "general factual" meaning, the imperfective can refer to actions viewed as process or in their duration (progressive meaning): Когда папа и Антон Николаевич играли в шахматы, мы смотрели телевизор. While Papa and Anton played (were playing) chess, we watched (were watching) TV. Виктор два часа читал эту книгу. Victor read the book for two hours. It may also express repeated or habitual actions: Все молодые люди, которые живут недалеко, ПРИХОДИЛИ сюда покупать газеты и журналы. All the young people who live nearby came here to buy newspapers and magazines. (They had the habit of coming to the same place repeatedly to buy them). Since perfective verbs indicate a complete action, it is logical that perfective verbs have NO present tense--an action being viewed as in progress cannot at the same time be viewed as a result, as a total event. There is one very firm rule of aspect usage: following verbs meaning 'to begin, to continue or to end", ALWAYS use an imperfective infinitive: Когда начали строить этот дом? When did they start to build this house? Вчера мы посмотрели фильм "Анна Каренина", а сегодня я начал читать книгу. Yesterday we watched the film "Anna Karenina", but today I started to read a book. Edited to insert correction from Serpent -Thanks!!!: Маша долго показывала квартиру. Edited by BAnna on 30 August 2014 at 4:05am 3 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| BAnna Triglot Senior Member United States Joined 4620 days ago 409 posts - 616 votes Speaks: English*, German, Spanish Studies: Russian, Turkish | Message 208 of 236 28 August 2014 at 3:10am | IP Logged | ||
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August SC Grammar Summary-Spanish (Various uses of Subjunctive)
Examples of Subjunctive from book "Laugh 'n' Learn Spanish" 1. Me sorprende que no te quejes más. I'm surprised that you don't complain more. The present subjunctive occurs here after an expression of emotion and the connecting work que (that). Notice that quejarse is a reflexive verb. 2. Cuando se despierte, le voy a cantar las cuarenta. When she wakes up, I'm giong to give her a piece of my mind. The subjunctive is used here because the speaker is projecting into the uncertain future. This is different than saying she will wake up and using the future tense. Use the subjunctive in verbs after cuando, antes de que, tan pronto como, hasta que, or similar expressions when you are referring to future action. 3. ¡Quiero que guardes esta ropa ahora, para que no termine en el suelo! I want you to put away this clothing now so it doesn't end up on the floor. Use the subjunctive after an expression of implied command. If there is no change of subject, use the infinitive (Quiero guardar esta ropa). Use the subjunctive after para que, a fin de que, or other expressions that imply purpose (since this is a kind of implied command) when there is a change of subject. In this case, YOU are to put the clothing away so that IT doesn't end up on the floor. 4. Me alegro de que me lo hayas hecho ver. I'm glad that you have made me see it. Use the subjunctive after an expression of emotion when there is a change of subject. Here the present perfect subjunctive is used because the second part of the sentence refers to an action that has been completed at the present moment. 5. Cuanto más grande sea tu auto, mejor. The bigger your car will be, the better. Use this formula (cuanto más ... sea..., mejor) to talk about the link between something being a certain way in the future and your satisfaction. The subjunctive is used because the quality is projected into a possible (but never certain) future. 6. No jueges, no esperes, no me discutas, no uses tanto champú. Don't play, don't wait, don't talk back to me, don't use so much shampoo. All commands in the negative use no + the relevant subjunctive form. 7. ¿Hay algo que necesite ser arreglado? Is there anything that needs to be fixed? Nada que me venga a la cabeza. Nothing that comes to mind. Use the subjunctive in a descriptive clause following an indefinite or negative subject. In the first sentence, ALGO is vague and indefinite, because there may or may not be something needing fixing, so necesite is in the subjunctive. In the second sentence, NADA is negative because it means nothing, something that does not exist, so venga is in the subjunctive. 8. No quiero dormir sola. ¡Quiero que tú y papi se cambien de nuevo arriba! I don't want to sleep alone, I want you and Dad to move back upstairs! When you tell others what you want them to do, you have a change of subject, so you have to use a secondary clause and a subjunctive. 9. Hubo una época en que no querías que te vieran en público con tu madre. There was a time when you didn't want anyone to see you in public with your mother. After an expression of implied command ending in que, you need a subjunctive when there is a change of subject. Since the main part of the idea is in a past tense (imperfect), the past subjunctive must be used in the second part. 10. Tuvo que hacerlo o el otro soldado le hubiera disparado a él. He had to do it or the other soldier would have fired at him. Here the second verb hubiera disparado is in the pluperfect (past perfect) subjunctive. This is appropriate because the verb expresses what could have happened. Notice also that the reference to him is repeated with le and then, a él, for emphasis. 3 persons have voted this message useful |
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