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 Language Learning Forum : Language Programs, Books & Tapes |  | |
| frenkeld Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 6946 days ago 2042 posts - 2719 votes  Speaks: Russian*, English Studies: German | Message 161 of 191 15 July 2007 at 2:34am | IP Logged | |||||
Looking at your list of Russian materials, I am wondering if you are correctly identifying the elements in them that actually taught you the language. This goes back to your earlier remark that perhaps we aren't seeing some common elements between seemingly different programs. One can think of Pimsleur in terms of speaking, but it is also the first step towards intuitively unraveling the grammar, as opposed to having it explained. Assimil, interestingly enough, places considerable emphasis on acquiring quite a bit of grammar from examples rather than from explanations. The difference seems to be the pace, which is quite steep in Assimil, which they make up for by throwing in some amount of grammatical explanations. Pimsleur, however, is what got you started in Russian, with more and more grammar explicitly taught in your subsequent materials. This sequence seems to be the one as far as grammar acquisition and study goes if one starts with Assimil. It forces one to acquire a fair bit of grammar, but those who don't want to speak making a lot of mistakes will have to study grammar more explicitly later, from a different source. Edited by frenkeld on 15 July 2007 at 2:35am 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Seth Diglot Changed to RedKing’sDream Senior Member United States Joined 7227 days ago 240 posts - 252 votes Speaks: English*, Russian Studies: Persian | Message 162 of 191 15 July 2007 at 10:33am | IP Logged | |||||
Yes, obviously if people are learning from both methods (which we can agree seem to work pretty differently on the surface), then they are doing something fundamental in common: acquisition of grammar. And by that, we mean an intuititive understanding of how the grammar works, not just intellectual knowledge of the system. I prefer the more bottom-up approach to Pimsleur and its interaction with learner. Others obviously like to infer it from the way Assimil presents it. I have already said plenty about their salient differences, so I think its fair just to leave it at that. Interstingly, Barry Farber praises Pimsleur in his book. I'd like to know what his opinion of Assimil is. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| frenkeld Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 6946 days ago 2042 posts - 2719 votes Speaks: Russian*, English Studies: German | Message 163 of 191 15 July 2007 at 11:02am | IP Logged | |||||
It's not clear he knew about it. fanatic mentioned once writing to him to tell him about Assimil - I wonder if he ever heard back. Barry Farber was old school, his mainstay was a textbook. So, for him Pimsleur would've likely been a supplement, and it's a big difference relying on a program to teach you all you need to know versus using it in auxiliary mode. Sort of like what I said about seeing Assimil as just a collection of dialogs and a bilingual reader of sorts.
This is the reason I would't use any audiocourse without having a traditional textbook on hand as well. One can get plenty of top down stuff later from reading and listening. Edited by frenkeld on 15 July 2007 at 11:02am 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| LilleOSC Senior Member United States lille.theoffside.comRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 6694 days ago 545 posts - 546 votes 4 sounds Speaks: English* Studies: French, Arabic (Written) | Message 164 of 191 15 July 2007 at 2:59pm | IP Logged | |||||
Sorry, that wasn't my intention.
I understand what you mean now in both of your quotes. Thanks for explaining. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Farley Triglot Senior Member United States Joined 7095 days ago 681 posts - 739 votes 1 sounds Speaks: English*, GermanB1, French Studies: Spanish | Message 165 of 191 15 July 2007 at 3:15pm | IP Logged | |||||
Oddly enough Bill Handley (fanatic) recommends starting with not one but three textbooks in his book “Fast Easy Way to Learn a Language”. (BTW fanatic I have your book sitting next to Farber’s on the self.) Barry Farber also liked Transparent’s 101 Languages and the old Berlitz Comprehensive Cassette Courses. Both courses are Assimil-like in approach. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Farley Triglot Senior Member United States Joined 7095 days ago 681 posts - 739 votes 1 sounds Speaks: English*, GermanB1, French Studies: Spanish | Message 166 of 191 15 July 2007 at 3:25pm | IP Logged | |||||
You just hit the nail on the head! Assimil learners prefer the top-down approach. If research on personality types, learning types and multiple intelligences does not prove it, then certainly the responses on the forum suggest differences among learners. Either way, Assimil and FSI teach syntax through examples. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Marc Frisch Heptaglot Senior Member Germany Joined 6668 days ago 1001 posts - 1169 votes Speaks: German*, French, English, Spanish, Portuguese, Turkish, Italian Studies: Persian, Tamil | Message 167 of 191 16 July 2007 at 4:58am | IP Logged | |||||
I haven't followed the whole thread, so maybe someone has commented on that already. I had a look at it again and it's not that bad actually. I confounded it with the Latin course, which I don't like at all, so I corrected the original post. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| frenkeld Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 6946 days ago 2042 posts - 2719 votes Speaks: Russian*, English Studies: German | Message 168 of 191 16 July 2007 at 2:39pm | IP Logged | |||||
John, Is the word "textbook" used interchangeably with "audiocourse" in that recommendation? 1 person has voted this message useful |
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