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Serpent’s cyclic log: César, Sleipnir,adv

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Serpent
Octoglot
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Russian Federation
serpent-849.livejour
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 Message 153 of 264
20 March 2014 at 2:49am | IP Logged 

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Serpent
Octoglot
Senior Member
Russian Federation
serpent-849.livejour
Joined 5230 days ago

9753 posts - 15778 votes 
4 sounds
Speaks: Russian*, English, FinnishC1, Latin, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese
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 Message 154 of 264
23 March 2014 at 5:46pm | IP Logged 
So for our TAC challenge I've written 20 Italian sentences. I'm trying to learn the particles and in general the "little words".

Actually that's a bit more than 20, because ne and mica generally don't seem to work out of context. So I've added some extra sentences for that - corrections welcome everywhere!


È mica impossibile imparare lingue guardando le partite di calcio?* (1) - Forse molti pensano così. Ma è possibile, ne sono sicura. (2)
*rhetoric. Me talking with someone supportive, heh.

Mica sei già pronto?* (3) - Ma sì che sono quasi pronto! Sai mica dove sono i miei occhiali? (4) Ne ho bisogno. (5)
*disbelief, strong doubt, even some disdain

Non mi interessano mica questi livri. (6) Li porto in biblioteca. (7) - Non ce li porta ancora, prima voglio leggerli. (8)

Sai mica quando inizia la partita? Quanto tempo abbiamo? (9) - C'e ne ancora molto. Vuoi imparare alcuni* cori della nostra squadra? (10) - Ne voglio imparare tutti! (11)
*or does dei cori work better if i really want to use ne in the reply?

Non ti sei fatta male mica?!* (12) - Sto bene. Ma questi gol bellissimi! Ne ho visto cinque. Ecco perchè sembro forse un po' matta. (13)
*mica as an interjection

I giocatori stano firmando autografi, ne vuoi anche tu? (14) - Mica sarà facile, no?* (15)
*sarcastic

Chi hanno* mangiato delle caramelle? Ne vorrei almeno una! (16) - Scusa, Mandžukić ne ha mangiato tutte. (17)
*if there were so many that I can't imagine one person eating them all

18. Come va con la sua tesi? - Non ho ancora mica fatto. (my diploma heh...)
19. Non ho mica detto cosa facevano, appena ho notato che erano rimasti lì da soli.
20. Non l'avrai mica dimenticato?

Edited by Serpent on 31 March 2014 at 2:04am

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Serpent
Octoglot
Senior Member
Russian Federation
serpent-849.livejour
Joined 5230 days ago

9753 posts - 15778 votes 
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Speaks: Russian*, English, FinnishC1, Latin, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese
Studies: Danish, Romanian, Polish, Belarusian, Ukrainian, Croatian, Slovenian, Catalan, Czech, Galician, Dutch, Swedish

 
 Message 155 of 264
02 April 2014 at 12:29am | IP Logged 
just saving swedish links
finntroll - fiskarens fiende
same with a Spanish translation
cool flash-based vocabulary pages with the clearest recordings ever

I'm finally starting to make sense of the Swedish pronunciation, I think.
some stuff in finnish, very similar to suomea ole hyvä that i once loved. gotta reinstall quicktime to listen
quickest summary ever. still so proud that i realized d in dj is pronounced in finladssvenska
historical stuff. oops i've seen the term riemuruotsia and didn't get the pun until now
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suzukaze
Triglot
Senior Member
Italy
bit.ly/1bGm459
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Studies: German, French, Swedish, Japanese

 
 Message 156 of 264
02 April 2014 at 9:45pm | IP Logged 
Some corrections :)

Serpent wrote:
È mica impossibile imparare lingue guardando le partite di calcio?* (1) - Forse molti pensano così. Ma è possibile, ne sono sicura. (2)

<imparare le lingue (straniere)> and sentence 1 works best if used in the affirmative form. Also, you shouldn’t start a sentence with a conjunction so you have to replace that <ma> with something else, <invece> would probably be the most common option.

Serpent wrote:
Mica sei già pronto?* (3) - Ma sì che sono quasi pronto! Sai mica dove sono i miei occhiali? (4) Ne ho bisogno. (5)

Small change in word order of sentence 3: <Sei mica già>.

Serpent wrote:
Non mi interessano mica questi livri. (6) Li porto in biblioteca. (7) - Non ce li porta ancora, prima voglio leggerli. (8)

<m'interessano> and I think <livri> instead of <libri> is just a typo. <Portare> because you are referring to a second person singular whereas <porta> is for the third person singular.

Serpent wrote:
Sai mica quando inizia la partita? Quanto tempo abbiamo? (9) - C'e ne ancora molto. Vuoi imparare alcuni* cori della nostra squadra? (10) - Ne voglio imparare tutti! (11)
*or does dei cori work better if i really want to use ne in the reply?

Either works, although I prefer <alcuni cori> to avoid the -d alliteration given by <dei cori della nostra>. However, you cannot use <ne> if you refer to all the choruses. In that case you have to use <Li>. You can use <ne> only if you want to learn some choruses, as in <Ne voglio imparare alcuni> or <Mi piacerebbe impararne alcuni>. Also: <Ce n’è>, which is the correct short form for <ce ne è>.

Serpent wrote:
Non ti sei fatta male mica?!* (12) - Sto bene. Ma questi gol bellissimi! Ne ho visto cinque. Ecco perchè sembro forse un po' matta. (13)

<ne ho visti> since you are talking about multiple goals, <perché> instead of <perchè>, and <questi gol sono bellissimi>.

Serpent wrote:
I giocatori stano firmando autografi, ne vuoi anche tu? (14) - Mica sarà facile, no?* (15)

<firmando gli autografi> and <Sarà mica facile> or <Non sarà mica facile>.

Serpent wrote:
Chi hanno* mangiato delle caramelle? Ne vorrei almeno una! (16) - Scusa, Mandžukić ne ha mangiato tutte. (17)

Your reasoning makes sense however…the correct version is <ha> :P If more than one person ate the candies you will say that in the answer: <I miei fratelli le hanno mangiate tutte> (note the -e ending of <mangiate> since <caramelle> is female). Also: <le ha mangiate> instead of <ne ha mangiato tutte>. If you want to use <ne> in this context you can say <Mandžukić ne ha mangiate alcune>, however the meaning is obviously different.

Serpent wrote:
18. Come va con la sua tesi? - Non ho ancora mica fatto.

The question using the third person is correct if, for example, it is posed by your professor. However, if that's the case, using <mica> would be too informal. So you can either say <Non l'ho ancora fatta> (tesi is feminine) or make the question informal <Come va con la tua tesi> (tua is optional since the other person is talking directly to you) <Non l'ho mica ancora fatta> or <Non l'ho neanche/nemmeno incominciata>.

Serpent wrote:
20. Non l'avrei mica dimenticato?

If the subject is the first person singular it would be better to say <Non l'avrò mica dimenticato>, if instead it is the second person singular <Non l'avrai mica dimenticato>.
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Serpent
Octoglot
Senior Member
Russian Federation
serpent-849.livejour
Joined 5230 days ago

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 Message 157 of 264
02 April 2014 at 11:12pm | IP Logged 
Thank you!!!
About word order with mica: I was mostly going by these examples. Do they sound fine to you?

libri with a v is Portuguese influence, oops. BTW since you also speak Spanish: is there anything that doesn't sound downright wrong, but has obviously been taken from Portuguese/Spanish? Like if I used apprendere which does exist but is less common than imparare.

sua tesi might be Finnish influence because it's one of the forms of "you" in Finnish :O I have no other idea why I could write it like that, maybe just too focused on "mica" etc. It was definitely supposed to be tua :)
Hmm and is there any other way to say "Non ho fatto ancora niente (con la tesi)"?

So can I say "tutti di loro" but not "ne tutti"? Does it change if I say "quasi tutti" or similar?

and heh I was hoping I could fix avrai before you noticed :D
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suzukaze
Triglot
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Italy
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 Message 158 of 264
05 April 2014 at 3:45pm | IP Logged 
Serpent wrote:
About word order with mica: I was mostly going by these examples. Do they sound fine to you?

Some are correct, others aren’t wrong, but they aren’t that common either. For example: <Non sarà mica (così) scemo> is far more used than <Sarà mica scemo>. The <così> I put is optional, but you can use it to give even more emphasis to your statement.

Serpent wrote:
is there anything that doesn't sound downright wrong, but has obviously been taken from Portuguese/Spanish? Like if I used apprendere which does exist but is less common than imparare.

Yes, <imparare> is more used than <apprendere>. Other major differences between Italian and Spanish are in the use of verb tenses: when talking about the past we normally use the passato prossimo instead of the passato remoto, at least in Northern Italy. We also don’t rely too much on the subjunctive tense in subordinates.

Serpent wrote:
Hmm and is there any other way to say "Non ho fatto ancora niente (con la tesi)"?

Aside from the examples I already gave you, you can say: <Non ho ancora iniziato a scrivere la tesi> or with the pronoun <a scriverla> if you have mentioned your thesis before. A shorter version of the previous sentence would be: <Non ho ancora scritto/iniziato la tesi>. The difference between <scrivere> and <fare> in this example is that the former is a bit less colloquial than the latter.

Serpent wrote:
So can I say "tutti di loro" but not "ne tutti"? Does it change if I say "quasi tutti" or similar?

If you are referring to sentence 10 yes, you can say <Li vorrei imparare quasi tutti>, <tutti di loro> is wrong. if you want to use a possesive pronoun you have to use the second person plural: <Mi piacerebbe imparare tutti i vostri cori> or <Mi piacerebbe imparare tutti i cori della vostra squadra>. You also use <Vorrei imparare…>.

You can use <quasi tutti>, but between <alcuni> and <quasi tutti> there is a small difference in meaning. If you use <alcuni> you mean only a few choruses, whereas if you say <quasi tutti> you mean most of the choruses .

Serpent wrote:
and heh I was hoping I could fix avrai before you noticed :D

I was faster than you :P

One last thing I forgot to correct: <tesi> is not the same as <diploma>. Tesi only refers to the written research you make and then discuss in front of a commitee at university. High school and middle school also require something similar, but since the amount of work is usually little we use the word <tesina>, literally meaning small thesis.

A diploma is the document you receive after graduating from middle school and high school (be it a <liceo> or a professional high school, an <istituto professionale>. It certifies that you have passed your exams. After graduating from university instead you get a <laurea>. Albeit you could say <Ho un diploma di laurea in chimica>, most people will simply say <Ho una laurea in chimica>.
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Serpent
Octoglot
Senior Member
Russian Federation
serpent-849.livejour
Joined 5230 days ago

9753 posts - 15778 votes 
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Speaks: Russian*, English, FinnishC1, Latin, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese
Studies: Danish, Romanian, Polish, Belarusian, Ukrainian, Croatian, Slovenian, Catalan, Czech, Galician, Dutch, Swedish

 
 Message 159 of 264
05 April 2014 at 4:47pm | IP Logged 
I kinda meant it in general. di lui/loro is replaced by ne, but if you use tutti you can't really use ne anymore because it implies only a part?

As for diploma, it's more about my English hehe. In Russia we call both things a diploma (tesi and laurea), but I feel awkward using the word thesis in English because it sounds like some huge work. But in Italian I kinda feel more comfortable saying tesi. but aww tesina is a cute word! I've finally got started and my work is not exactly a tesina, but well it's not like a doctorate thesis either.

Thanks again for your comment :)))
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Serpent
Octoglot
Senior Member
Russian Federation
serpent-849.livejour
Joined 5230 days ago

9753 posts - 15778 votes 
4 sounds
Speaks: Russian*, English, FinnishC1, Latin, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese
Studies: Danish, Romanian, Polish, Belarusian, Ukrainian, Croatian, Slovenian, Catalan, Czech, Galician, Dutch, Swedish

 
 Message 160 of 264
05 April 2014 at 5:07pm | IP Logged 
Oh and as for vostra squadra, I was totally picturing myself at Artemio Franchi *_* And I would say nostra squadra there ♥


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