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TAC 2013 MIR Russian TEAM THREAD | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Language Learning Log |  | |
| Марк Senior Member Russian Federation Joined 4854 days ago 2096 posts - 2972 votes  Speaks: Russian* | Message 321 of 586 08 January 2013 at 6:44pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
It depends. It can change the meaning. Once I read your sentece Я только перевел три предложения. My first thought was that you had to do something else with those sentences, but did only the translation. But then I remembered English and understood that you meant Я перевел только три предложения. Hardening of a soft L can impede the comprehension, sometimes I don't understand what you write or I'm not sure what you mean. But you can be understood even if you write very ungrammatical sentences, I showed that to you with this "You is thinking, that, yours French...". There was no need to learn the Russian grammar at all Я жить Гаага is as comprehensible as Я живу в Гааге, but is much simpler. The l thing is easy to fix, in fact. You pronounce a close sound in French, for example, and probably in Dutch. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| tarvos Super Polyglot Winner TAC 2012 Senior Member China likeapolyglot.wordpr Joined 4505 days ago 5310 posts - 9399 votes Speaks: Dutch*, English, Swedish, French, Russian, German, Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Afrikaans Studies: Greek, Modern Hebrew, Spanish, Portuguese, Czech, Korean, Esperanto, Finnish | Message 322 of 586 08 January 2013 at 7:12pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
Of course it can change the meaning. That's not the point; the point is that in this case, the change of meaning will just prompt a в смысле? что вы имеете ввиду? In that case I repeat or rephrase, no problem. Or they will remember that I speak English and make that connection. And thus understand. This is the sort of detail that I leave for last because it's a lower-order change of meaning.
Of course, but that latter example is a much more overt mistake than misplacing только. Misplacing только creates a grammatical sentence in which the meaning shifts. The sentence is not per se wrong, it's unnatural. This is a whole other order of bad grammar than Я жить Гаага. That's why it's much easier to avoid that second mistake than the first.
I do not know what the Dutch do. It depends on the dialect. I think it's quite somewhere in the middle or a little dark. But I have no idea. If anything, I think of the distinction between lip and kettle. Then again I don't remember whether I mispronounced them in the SoundCloud thing I uploaded either. By the way, I have no illusions that I speak Russian fluently or anything; I just speak better than I did before. Hence why I would still consider myself intermediate in Russian. Edited by tarvos on 08 January 2013 at 7:20pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| fabriciocarraro Hexaglot Winner TAC 2012 Senior Member Brazil russoparabrasileirosRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 4513 days ago 989 posts - 1454 votes Speaks: Portuguese*, EnglishB2, Italian, Spanish, Russian, French Studies: Dutch, German, Japanese | Message 323 of 586 08 January 2013 at 7:14pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
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I thing I'll record an audio just like @tarvos did, in order to get an evaluation from Марк. I know I'm far from perfect, but I'd like to know where I can improve now.
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| Марк Senior Member Russian Federation Joined 4854 days ago 2096 posts - 2972 votes Speaks: Russian* | Message 324 of 586 08 January 2013 at 7:26pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
But the second can have only one meaning, while the first is ambigous. For example, Я только сплю дома means I only sleep at home (and do everything else somewhere else), while Я сплю только дома means I sleep only at home and nowhere else. Both are grammatical but have different meaning, so it is even worse than Я жить Гаага. And even to avoid completely ungrammatical sentences one has to work hard. I've heard you speaking French and you pronounced soft ls there. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| tarvos Super Polyglot Winner TAC 2012 Senior Member China likeapolyglot.wordpr Joined 4505 days ago 5310 posts - 9399 votes Speaks: Dutch*, English, Swedish, French, Russian, German, Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Afrikaans Studies: Greek, Modern Hebrew, Spanish, Portuguese, Czech, Korean, Esperanto, Finnish | Message 325 of 586 08 January 2013 at 7:34pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
This is true, but if we're talking communication the first doesn't sound "wrong" (even if it's totally not what you meant to say). The second sounds barbarian. And if you say something like that, in my experience the other person will respond with "did you mean" and then you understand the mistake (or if you don't, you ask). That's more what I meant.
My French pronunciation is also miles better than my Russian, so that doesn't surprise me. I was referring to whether I pronounced the soft l in the Russian excerpt on Soundcloud. I do not know if you heard that. Edited by tarvos on 08 January 2013 at 7:35pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Solfrid Cristin Heptaglot Winner TAC 2011 & 2012 Senior Member Norway Joined 5132 days ago 4143 posts - 8864 votes Speaks: Norwegian*, Spanish, Swedish, French, English, German, Italian Studies: Russian | Message 326 of 586 09 January 2013 at 12:12am | IP Logged | ||||||||
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There does not seem to be many opinions on where to post the challenges, but I suspect the best long term
solution is to have it on our web site, perhaps riff could tell us a little about the possibilities? In the mean time I got so inspired by the list of challenges, that I have started doing the beginner challenges. I will post the first here. I have had someone who knows Russian go through them first, to take away some of the worst mistakes, but it is not elegant. It is Russian - caveman style. I would be grateful for corrections and improvements, but please be gentle. I have a fragile ego :-) LITTLE CHALLENGES RUSSIAN 1 1. Меня зовут Кристина 2. Мне пятьдесят лет. 3. Я норвежка и живу около Осло. 4. Мне очень нравится иностранный язык. 5. Я люблю русский язык. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| stelingo Hexaglot Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 5630 days ago 722 posts - 1076 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish, Portuguese, French, German, Italian Studies: Russian, Czech, Polish, Greek, Mandarin | Message 327 of 586 09 January 2013 at 12:36am | IP Logged | ||||||||
LITTLE CHALLENGES RUSSIAN 1 1. Меня зовут Кристина 2. Мне пятьдесят лет. 3. Я норвежка и живу около Осло. 4. Мне очень нравятся иностранные языки. 5. Я люблю русский язык. I think it would sound better in the plural. (I like foreign languages). Otherwise it all looks correct to me. молодец! Edited by stelingo on 09 January 2013 at 12:37am 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Solfrid Cristin Heptaglot Winner TAC 2011 & 2012 Senior Member Norway Joined 5132 days ago 4143 posts - 8864 votes Speaks: Norwegian*, Spanish, Swedish, French, English, German, Italian Studies: Russian | Message 328 of 586 09 January 2013 at 12:54am | IP Logged | ||||||||
Thanks a lot! I was wondering about that one, but I have not really learned plurals yet, so I was unsure of how to say it. Your corrections were very helpful! 1 person has voted this message useful |
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