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TAC 2013, Celtic Team: "Clan Lugus" | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Language Learning Log |  | |
 jeff_lindqvist Diglot Moderator SwedenRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 6702 days ago 4250 posts - 5710 votes  Speaks: Swedish*, English Studies: German, Spanish, Russian, Dutch, Mandarin, Esperanto, Irish, French Personal Language Map | Message 153 of 195 27 August 2013 at 10:04pm | IP Logged | ||
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I once bumped into a Cornish speaker in Germany (he turned out to be one of the voice actors in the accompanying CDs to the "Skeul an Yeth" books). I got the impression that it was a fairly living language, at least in the community (maybe similar to Esperanto or Irish?). Forum member TheElvenLord did visit the forum last October, but his last post was some years ago.
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| Teango Triglot Winner TAC 2010 & 2012 Senior Member United States teango.wordpress.comRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5349 days ago 2210 posts - 3734 votes Speaks: English*, German, Russian Studies: Hawaiian, French, Toki Pona | Message 154 of 195 28 August 2013 at 12:03am | IP Logged | ||
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We have 2 members listed with Cornish as their secondary native language, and 3 at intermediate level, but most of them haven't posted or visited in years. I recall seeing TheElvenLord about back in 2009 I think, and would be interested to hear how he's getting on. He used to be the "go to" person for Cornish here.
I know that Irish and Scottish Gaelic are very close to each other, and I often hear the same thing about Welsh, Cornish, and Breton, although to a lesser extent, being related on the Brythonic branch of Celtic languages. Does anyone happen to know just how close or similar they really are to each other? On a similar note, I wonder if there are any speakers of Manx here on the Forum? In fact, I'm not even sure if Manx is listed as a study language or tag in the HTLAL database (I couldn't find it just now). I think we should definitely add it to our big list of languages, as it's a valid member of the Gaelic family and has experienced a lot of progress since its revitalisation in the 70s. At last count, 1,823 out of the 80,398 residents of the Isle of Man could speak, read, or write in Manx Gaelic (see p. 29 of the Isle of Man Census Report, 2011). This includes a growing number of new native speakers, and a good positive overall reception for the Manx language and its culture in immersion schools and the local community. Edited by Teango on 28 August 2013 at 12:06am 3 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Josquin Heptaglot Senior Member Germany Joined 4637 days ago 2266 posts - 3992 votes Speaks: German*, English, French, Latin, Italian, Russian, Swedish Studies: Japanese, Irish, Portuguese, Persian | Message 155 of 195 28 August 2013 at 1:10pm | IP Logged | ||
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For anyone interested in the comparative grammar of the Celtic languages, I recommend:
Ball, Martin (ed.): The Celtic Languages, London: Routledge 1996. It's quite expensive if you want to buy it, but I could borrow it from my university library. Very interesting and very informative! It covers Irish, Scottish Gaelic, Manx, Welsh, Cornish, and Breton. There's information about the history of the Celtic languages, every language is presented with its grammar, and there's also information about the sociolinguistics of each language. Concerning Teango's question, I think the Goidelic languages are closer related to each other than the Brythonic languages. Until about 1750, Gaelic used to be one language with a dialect continuum. Only after that, the separation into Irish, Manx, and Scots Gaelic really came into being. The Brythonic languages, however, diverged from each other much earlier, which is logical because Cornish was already almost extinct by 1750. Edited by Josquin on 28 August 2013 at 1:19pm 3 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| tarvos Super Polyglot Winner TAC 2012 Senior Member China likeapolyglot.wordpr Joined 4500 days ago 5310 posts - 9399 votes Speaks: Dutch*, English, Swedish, French, Russian, German, Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Afrikaans Studies: Greek, Modern Hebrew, Spanish, Portuguese, Czech, Korean, Esperanto, Finnish | Message 156 of 195 28 August 2013 at 1:15pm | IP Logged | ||
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My Breton is of very limited help when I see Welsh. But that may also be my Breton,
although I know the structural elements of that language well enough. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Tahl Diglot Newbie United States Joined 4081 days ago 26 posts - 44 votes Speaks: English*, Welsh Studies: Spanish, Finnish | Message 157 of 195 28 August 2013 at 1:59pm | IP Logged | ||
I did a Breton taster class a few years ago and noticed that my Welsh allowed me to identify sentence structure -- as in, "well, that's clearly a verb, and this must be the noun" -- but not more. My understanding is: (a) Similarities of Welsh and Breton are more obvious in sound than in writing; (b) Not mutually intelligible as a rule; (b) But it's not hard to create artifical sentences that are mutually intelligible. Example I've been given (I can vouch for the Welsh but not the Breton): Who runs after the cat in my sister's house? Welsh: Pwy sy'n rhedeg ar ôl y gath yn nhŷ fy chwaer? Breton: Piv zo o redeg war eul ar ch’azh en ti va c’hoar? 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| tarvos Super Polyglot Winner TAC 2012 Senior Member China likeapolyglot.wordpr Joined 4500 days ago 5310 posts - 9399 votes Speaks: Dutch*, English, Swedish, French, Russian, German, Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Afrikaans Studies: Greek, Modern Hebrew, Spanish, Portuguese, Czech, Korean, Esperanto, Finnish | Message 158 of 195 28 August 2013 at 2:59pm | IP Logged | ||
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Breton sounds fairly logical, makes sense.
I think it is more in sound, yes. But I have studied Breton mostly in its written form. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| liammcg Senior Member Ireland Joined 4397 days ago 269 posts - 397 votes Speaks: English* | Message 159 of 195 28 August 2013 at 3:24pm | IP Logged | ||
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My experience of the Brythonic languages is limited to a few weeks of dabbling with
Welsh. I can however confirm that the Goidelic languages are close enough to allow basic communication between the speakers of different language. Before I picked up Scottish Gaelic I was able to converse with the people of the outer Hebrides about basic everyday things. This was also the case in Manx when I visited the I.O.M a few years ago. The Irish and Gaelic writing systems stem from a common root (Scottish being closer to the original). Manx on the other hand has an orthography which is based on English which makes it difficult for Irish/Gaelic speakers to read. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
 Iversen Super Polyglot Moderator Denmark berejst.dk Joined 6496 days ago 9078 posts - 16473 votes Speaks: Danish*, French, English, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, Swedish, Esperanto, Romanian, Catalan Studies: Afrikaans, Greek, Norwegian, Russian, Serbian, Icelandic, Latin, Irish, Lowland Scots, Indonesian, Polish, Croatian Personal Language Map | Message 160 of 195 29 August 2013 at 11:59am | IP Logged | ||
If the parallels are easier to spot in the pronunciation than in the ortography then Welsh and Breton aren't too far away from each other - if these example sentences are typical,that is. I have never studied either of the two, but even I can see some parallels in the sentences structure to Irish (and presumably Scottish Gaelic), like the use of "who is at running" (instead of just "runs"), a complex preposition "ar-ol y-gath" at-after the-cat" ("tar éis an cat" in Irish) and the word "ti" for 'house' in Breton (as in Irish). Edited by Iversen on 30 August 2013 at 9:06am 1 person has voted this message useful |
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