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 Language Learning Forum : Questions About Your Target Languages |  | |
| Josquin Heptaglot Senior Member Germany Joined 4643 days ago 2266 posts - 3992 votes  Speaks: German*, English, French, Latin, Italian, Russian, Swedish Studies: Japanese, Irish, Portuguese, Persian | Message 41 of 126 17 June 2014 at 12:32pm | IP Logged | |||||
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1a. The cat must have escaped through the window.
1b. The cat had to escape through the window. 1b. doesn't sound very idiomatic though. Maybe "durchs Fenster" would be better here. Edited by Josquin on 17 June 2014 at 12:32pm 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| Gemuse Senior Member Germany Joined 3881 days ago 818 posts - 1189 votes Speaks: English Studies: German | Message 42 of 126 17 June 2014 at 1:54pm | IP Logged | |||||
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Aha! Thanks. "Must have" - this is a new construct for me.
Are these correct: 2: Ich muss einen Fehler gemacht haben. "I must have made a mistake". 3: Ich soll das Buch gelesen haben. "I should have read the book". 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Josquin Heptaglot Senior Member Germany Joined 4643 days ago 2266 posts - 3992 votes Speaks: German*, English, French, Latin, Italian, Russian, Swedish Studies: Japanese, Irish, Portuguese, Persian | Message 43 of 126 17 June 2014 at 1:58pm | IP Logged | |||||
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2. Correct.
3. "I should" = "ich sollte". Otherwise, the sentence is correct. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| fnord Triglot Groupie Switzerland Joined 4832 days ago 71 posts - 124 votes Speaks: German*, Swiss-German, English Studies: Luxembourgish, Dutch | Message 44 of 126 18 June 2014 at 12:46am | IP Logged | |||||
I agree that "durchs Fenster" would be much better. I think that would be a translation made with at least a small degree of assumption. Literally translated... 1a. Die Katze muss zum Fenster entwischt sein. 1b. Die Katze musste zum Fenster entwischen. ...both mean she "supposedly made" (1a) or "had to make" (1b) it to the window, but not necessarily through it.
This, in turn, sound somewhat unidiomatic to me though. I’m not sure if any native speaker would say this. Also, I can hardly imagine the sentence to stand on its own properly: “Ich sollte das Buch gelesen haben.” Would anybody say so? Maybe in few select cases, but not idiomatically so. It would be perfectly used when indicating futurity, but even then, I’d expect some context be stated explicitly (adverbially usually) in actual usage: Ich sollte das Buch bis dann / bis Ende nächster Woche gelesen gelesen haben. Back-translating this to English, this would be - If I am not mistaken - a text-book case for using “shall” instead of “should”: I shall have read the book by then / by the end of next week. Otherwise, in the sense ot having read the book, even though one should have, I would rather suggest: Ich hätte das Buch lesen sollen I believe this captures the (usual) meaning of “I should have read the book” best and it is perfectly appropriate in any register (whether more or less formal). Edited by fnord on 18 June 2014 at 12:53am 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| Josquin Heptaglot Senior Member Germany Joined 4643 days ago 2266 posts - 3992 votes Speaks: German*, English, French, Latin, Italian, Russian, Swedish Studies: Japanese, Irish, Portuguese, Persian | Message 45 of 126 18 June 2014 at 12:31pm | IP Logged | |||||
This is of course correct. It seems I have been reading too much English lately, so English syntax is starting to creep into my German. Concerning "zum Fenster entwischen": It doesn't necessarily mean "escape to the window". In slightly old-fashioned German, "zum Fenster entwischen" can actually mean "escape through the window". This probably isn't what most people would say today, but it's a possible translation. On a related note, confer also: "zum Fenster hinaus" = "out of the window". Edited by Josquin on 18 June 2014 at 12:36pm 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| daegga Tetraglot Senior Member Austria lang-8.com/553301 Joined 4320 days ago 1076 posts - 1792 votes Speaks: German*, EnglishC2, Swedish, Norwegian Studies: Danish, French, Finnish, Icelandic | Message 46 of 126 19 June 2014 at 12:26am | IP Logged | |||||
I would, but with a different meaning. It means "As far as I know I've read the book, but I'm not 100% sure". 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Gemuse Senior Member Germany Joined 3881 days ago 818 posts - 1189 votes Speaks: English Studies: German | Message 47 of 126 19 June 2014 at 4:58pm | IP Logged | |||||
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Thanks fnord, Josquin and daegga!
I could not have put "Ich hätte das Buch lesen sollen" together. I understand the words, and Konjunctiv II, but I cannot figure out how they combine to produce the given sentence with the desired meaning. So it's a new construct for me. Another question: Das hat sicher Spaß gemacht. According the words, I get "That had certainly fun made". I am confused by the "Das". Who had fun? If "Das" is talking about an activity, should it not rather be "Es war sicher Spaß"? 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Josquin Heptaglot Senior Member Germany Joined 4643 days ago 2266 posts - 3992 votes Speaks: German*, English, French, Latin, Italian, Russian, Swedish Studies: Japanese, Irish, Portuguese, Persian | Message 48 of 126 19 June 2014 at 5:59pm | IP Logged | |||||
You need to learn this construction seperately, as it applies to all modal verbs (müssen, sollen, dürfen, können, wollen, mögen). For these verbs, the Perfekt and all tenses derived from it are formed with "haben" + infinitive + infinitive of the modal verb: Er hat es nicht tun können. = He couldn't do it. Er hätte es nicht tun sollen. = He shouldn't have done it. Ich habe es nicht essen mögen. = I didn't like to eat it.
It's completely irrelevant whether you say "es" or "das". Both mean the same: "It was fun." In this case, "das" is a demonstrative pronoun referring to the activity you mentioned earlier. "Es war Spaß" is a literal translation from English and no idiomatic German expression. You cannot translate literally between two different languages and expect to get a valid sentence. "Spaß machen" = "to be fun" Edited by Josquin on 19 June 2014 at 6:01pm 2 persons have voted this message useful |
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