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 Language Learning Forum : Language Programs, Books & Tapes |  | |
| FSI Senior Member United States Joined 6362 days ago 550 posts - 590 votes  Speaks: English* | Message 73 of 191 11 July 2007 at 8:00pm | IP Logged | |||||
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Indeed - the amount of audio isn't nearly as important as the *content* of said audio.
This is rather interesting, as a few days ago, I spent time reading an old Assimil thread that I would quite recommend for further insight into the program from people whom it's worked for: Ardaschir and fanatic: The Assimil Thread It's a bit deja-vuish. Nearly the same conversation took place two years ago, right down to the discussion on value from audio time. Here was one of A's responses:
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| Farley Triglot Senior Member United States Joined 7095 days ago 681 posts - 739 votes 1 sounds Speaks: English*, GermanB1, French Studies: Spanish | Message 74 of 191 11 July 2007 at 8:37pm | IP Logged | |||||
Welcome! I just cherry picked lessons, exercises, and phrases for the active wave. Somewhere in the volume it mentioned where the literary tense or style was used in the lessons, the exercises contained the conversational style. John 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Zorndyke Diglot Senior Member Germany Joined 6961 days ago 374 posts - 382 votes Speaks: German*, English Studies: Czech | Message 75 of 191 12 July 2007 at 2:41am | IP Logged | |||||
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tpiz, since I simply lack the experience I cannot say whether it is true what you say or whether this applies to me.
However, the lack of discipline was not the only reason for me to add the whole vocabulary to the program. If I read a text in the target language, it sometimes goes like this: I read a sentence and encounter a new word. I will look that word up, maybe sternly trying to remember it for a few seconds. Several sentences later, I encounter the same word again. But instead of recognizing it, I wouldn't know its meaning any more, contingently I wouldn't even remember that I looked that word up just a minute ago. So I would look it up again. Some minutes later I would see the word for a third time, but still wouldn't be able to recall what it means... Normally it's not that bad, but I think you get what I mean. I don't know why, but vocabulary acquisition through plain reading or listening to the record for a few times does not work for me. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| fanatic Octoglot Senior Member Australia speedmathematics.com Joined 7149 days ago 1152 posts - 1818 votes Speaks: English*, German, French, Afrikaans, Italian, Spanish, Russian, Dutch Studies: Swedish, Norwegian, Polish, Modern Hebrew, Malay, Mandarin, Esperanto | Message 76 of 191 12 July 2007 at 8:29am | IP Logged | |||||
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This is the strong point of the Assimil programs.
When you study correctly with the Assimil courses you play through the audio and read the text three or four times. You don't worry if you forget the meanings of words. You then read the text and listen to the audio whenever you get the chance through the day. Again, you listen and read to understand and you look up the meanings of words you might have forgotten. Next day you repeat the previous three or four lessons before playing the new lesson. The new words are usually repeated in the next lesson. If not, they will be brought up again in successive lessons. You don't worry about memorising the words. You naturally remember the vocabulary as you hear the words (and read them) used in natural context. It takes away the pressure people have described when they use FSI. They write about drills and self-discipline. Because the lessons are so short (yet, introducing 20 to 30 new words each lesson) it is easy to play through old lessons before starting the new lesson. To play through yesterday's Pimsleur lesson before starting the new lesson would take half an hour. Assimil is the easiest, most pleasant way I know to learn another language. Thirty to forty minutes a day broken up into sessions of five to ten minutes at a time with no pressure to memorise vocabulary is no big deal. This is why I disagree with those who make flashcards from the lessons and do all of the extra work and put themselves under pressure. How many drills did you endure to learn your mother tongue? And to say that Assimil is only good to be used as extra practice for use with FSI or another course is nonsense. I learnt German with only Assimil as my teacher. I worked in Germany, translated technical texts from English to German, taught in a government school and did public speaking in German. Most of the other languages I have learnt have been with a combination of courses. Assimil makes a great stand-alone course. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Cage Diglot aka a.ardaschira, Athena, Michael Thomas Senior Member United States Joined 6627 days ago 382 posts - 393 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish Studies: French, Portuguese | Message 77 of 191 12 July 2007 at 9:05am | IP Logged | |||||
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To think you can become fluent in all the nuances of any language through Assimil alone or any other single course by itself is nonsense. My first teach yourself course was Pimsleur Spanish a very enjoyable feel good kind of course, When I finished it I tried to convince myself I was fluent...and I was, in a very small bady of the language. Assimil is a larger body of the language than Pimsleur but still a small body. I am using Assimil French right now and I don't see it doing what A small minority of this forum is claiming. So if someone wants to think they are fluent after either one of these courses then thats ok it's your fantasy. Administrator wrote an excellent synopsis of Assimil. It makes an excellent addition to the total language program but is not holy scripture as some seem to describe it as. Does the US government use it to train diplomats and other overseas personnel? Edited by Cage on 12 July 2007 at 9:07am 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Zorndyke Diglot Senior Member Germany Joined 6961 days ago 374 posts - 382 votes Speaks: German*, English Studies: Czech | Message 78 of 191 12 July 2007 at 9:32am | IP Logged | |||||
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I think making the flashcards isn't that much work. How much additional time do I need for that? 5 minutes, maybe a bit more.
There is also quite some vocabulary that appears in the course exactly once. Moreover, I feel I have to clarify that I see these flashcards just as a supplement. I still read texts and look up the vocabulary and I still listen to the tapes. Edited by Zorndyke on 12 July 2007 at 9:35am 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Farley Triglot Senior Member United States Joined 7095 days ago 681 posts - 739 votes 1 sounds Speaks: English*, GermanB1, French Studies: Spanish | Message 79 of 191 12 July 2007 at 10:08am | IP Logged | |||||
We seem to repeat the Assimil debate once every six months!
Cage, Forgive me for playing devils advocate of a moment. In the past I speculated that the Assimil-FSI debate was over learning styles. Personally, I’m not one to debate what is better as both have there merits, but I’ll stir the pot a bit here and up the claim that all the fuss over Assimil has to do with intelligence and motivation. The “small minority” (Fanatic, Ardaschir and others) are actually smarter and better motivated than the rest of us. John 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Seth Diglot Changed to RedKing’sDream Senior Member United States Joined 7227 days ago 240 posts - 252 votes Speaks: English*, Russian Studies: Persian | Message 80 of 191 12 July 2007 at 11:12am | IP Logged | |||||
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I have tried to use Assimil as Fanatic described above. Unfortunately, for me, it is an extremely annoying and unenjoyable experience. I'll play the lessons over and over and over--sometimes shadowing and sometimes just listening. I'll also read the lessons over and over and over. Either way, it is very hard to make the words stick with almost no previous knowledge of how the language works.
What ends up happening is I end up learning the rythym, intonation, etc., but not much else. In order to learn the meaning of the words I pretty much have to resort to rote memorization, but then the point of the method is lost. What I don't like about Assimil is that you the learner don't interact with the program. With Pimsleur and FSI, interaction is critical: there is a stimulus which prompts you to respond. Moreover, you learn individual words first and then see how they are built up into larger parts. The fact that Assimil comes with such a large vocabulary is also not as clear a concept as it has been argued. To me, many lessons are stuffed with so many new words that you have to constantly look up the meanings and try to commit them to memory before you can even half-way enjoy the dialogue. Assimil may be vocabulary rich, but there is not (in my opinion) any special method of vocabulary acquisition employed. Now before anyone gets uptight about what I've just said, let me say that I don't think Assimil is a horrible program. After getting a foothold in a language, I can see how it would be a decent program. Furthermore, for languages which are relatively close to your native language (say, Western European languages) I can see how it might work rather effectively. I have only tried it with Hungarian and Persian. Both times it felt like I was going no where. Furthermore, if Assimil really does work well for others, then more power to them. The idea that we have different learning styles is somewhat scientifically dissapointing. However, it just may be that way. The Administrator and Chung, for example, would also fall on the FSI side, I believe. Edited by Seth on 12 July 2007 at 11:15am 1 person has voted this message useful |
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