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 Language Learning Forum : Language Programs, Books & Tapes |  | |
| The Law Newbie United States Joined 6378 days ago 31 posts - 31 votes Speaks: English* | Message 81 of 191 12 July 2007 at 11:41am | IP Logged | ||||||||
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I think a lot of people are doing Assimil in a wrong way. I'm having no trouble remember words and their meanings from past exercises... this may have to do with me looking at the English translation at the last stage. I also don't really review past exercises, I might go back and look at some passages, but I can still remember what 90% of the sentences/vocabulary means. I believe people need to re-route their method :)
Edit: On a side note, I'm using it to learn French, so maybe the Western European languages are perfect for Assimil, but languages like Chinese/Japanese/Arabic, etc are not so good since they are so radically different. I've also completed Michel Thomas beforehand so I have a good foundation in the structure of French. Edited by The Law on 12 July 2007 at 11:44am 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
 jeff_lindqvist Diglot Moderator SwedenRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 6912 days ago 4250 posts - 5711 votes  Speaks: Swedish*, English Studies: German, Spanish, Russian, Dutch, Mandarin, Esperanto, Irish, French Personal Language Map | Message 82 of 191 12 July 2007 at 11:58am | IP Logged | ||||||||
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The trick is to get familiar with what is said (by reading the translation), listen and learn. I hardly ever memorize words, in a way I don't have to either, as they get repeated throughout the course. You're bound to hear the words in different contexts.
Yes, Pimsleur has interaction but at a high price - including pauses. That being said, I've finished three Pimleur courses (I liked the method) and will also go through FSI German in the near future. I don't know which Assimil course you (Seth) have studied, your previous knowledge of the language, your learning style, your motivation et.c. So far I haven't had any particular problems in aquiring the vocabulary, except for the fact that I lose a lot if I don't study for a couple of days - meaning I should stick to one lesson a day. I currently use Assimil to study/brush up German, Mandarin, Spanish and French - none of which is entirely "new" for me. Perhaps I should try Hungarian or Persian. :) Edited by jeff_lindqvist on 12 July 2007 at 11:58am 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Seth Diglot Changed to RedKing’sDream Senior Member United States Joined 7227 days ago 240 posts - 252 votes Speaks: English*, Russian Studies: Persian | Message 83 of 191 12 July 2007 at 12:25pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
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I have tried to familiarize myself with the translation. One problem which has not been adequately adressed is the following: if you review the translation, how do you know which word goes with which in the target language? Unless of course you look up the meaning of the word at the end of the lesson! But then we're right back to rote memorization. This is probably not an issue with familiar Western European languages whose syntax and morphology will not be too alien, but it was infuriating with Hungarian.
I am not saying, however, that it is impossible to learn the vocabulary in the way you described, but it is a lot more tedious work for me. With FSI, the vocabulary acquisition is much more effective for me because the learner has to produce it. In fact being called upon to produce it is integral to the program moving along. Same story with Pimsleur. Another issue. Let's suppose we're dealing with an unrealted, highly-inflected language. In one lesson of Assimil you hear the infinitive of the verb "to record." In another lesson down the line you hear the form for "he records." Do you know this word? Yeah, I guess so. But now in conversation you want to use "they recorded." What would that be? Well, it might follow the same pattern of the other verbs you know, but it isn't certain. During your Assimil course you've only heard two forms of the verb. With FSI, however, you have been drilled on just about every possible form of many verbs. The verb form you need comes naturally. Of course, I am aware that this caveat is much less of an issue when one is at a more advanced stage in the language. That is why I said that I could see the benefit of Assimil once one is sonewhat comfortable with the language. As I said before, the Assimil courses I tried were for Hungarian and Persian. I had little to no knowledge in them before starting Assimil. If it works for someone else, great. Seriously, you can't argue with resuslts. For me, it is a rather numbing experience, though I think it would be much easier if I used it for German, French, or Spanish. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| LilleOSC Senior Member United States lille.theoffside.comRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 6694 days ago 545 posts - 546 votes 4 sounds Speaks: English* Studies: French, Arabic (Written) | Message 84 of 191 12 July 2007 at 12:37pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
Interesting point. Maybe intelligence does play a factor with Assimil. Farley, are you saying that certain people that are gifted with languages are great with Assimil? EDIT: I forgot to say:
Edited by LilleOSC on 12 July 2007 at 12:41pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Asiafever Diglot Newbie Germany Joined 6456 days ago 38 posts - 35 votes Speaks: French*, English Studies: German, Mandarin, Japanese | Message 85 of 191 12 July 2007 at 1:33pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
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It's my opinions that drills are not a good way to learn languages! If you hear the verbs in context you will get used to them and they will come automatically.
How come people who never went to school can speak their language very well and people who studied the same language at the University for years using that drill pattern can't speak it in a real conversation? 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Seth Diglot Changed to RedKing’sDream Senior Member United States Joined 7227 days ago 240 posts - 252 votes Speaks: English*, Russian Studies: Persian | Message 86 of 191 12 July 2007 at 1:41pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
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What?
I've never heard of university classes stressing oral drills--at least nothing close to what is contained in a "good" FSI course. I agree that university classes are usually a poor way to build real competency, but it's precisely because they don't stress oral proficiency. I agree that you could get used to verbs by hearing them in context. However, as I mentioned above, it is unlikely that you will hear EVERY (or even many) forms of many verbs in an introductory Assimil course. Moreover, I have not seen a good argument as to why the person who learned listening to Assimil would be better than the student who learned through drills. At least when it comes to PRODUCTION. Passive knowledge might be a different story. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Farley Triglot Senior Member United States Joined 7095 days ago 681 posts - 739 votes 1 sounds Speaks: English*, GermanB1, French Studies: Spanish | Message 87 of 191 12 July 2007 at 2:00pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
Yes that is the conclusion I’m forced to draw. Assimil fans are on the whole more gifted with languages than the Assimil critics. No one argues the effectiveness of FSI largely due to reasons Seth listed above. What everyone argues is the necessity of FSI. After about 2 years of visiting the forum FSI seems like the “language for dummies” designed to be idiot proof. Not to say that anyone is an idiot for using FSI, but if even an idiot can learn than anyone can learn. I don’t think it is just a matter of being smart or stupid with Assimil because the results based on forum feedback are always a mixed bag. Many have problems with the translations, others with pronunciation (myself specifically), other remembering words, and others with learning verbs. Those who use it successfully, to use Ardaschir words, “add salt to taste”. And there are others (Admin) who are smart enough to learn from Assimil just prefer other methods. With respect to my use of Assimil, I always remind myself of my dad’s favorite quote that, “An ass can’t look into a mirror and expect an angle to look back”. John Edited by Farley on 12 July 2007 at 2:01pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Cage Diglot aka a.ardaschira, Athena, Michael Thomas Senior Member United States Joined 6627 days ago 382 posts - 393 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish Studies: French, Portuguese | Message 88 of 191 12 July 2007 at 2:35pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
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John,Farley, perhaps Assimil fans seem more gifted and intelligent because they are using an easier program that does not take you as far as FSI due to much less effort and material involved, therefore allowing them to complete many more languages and to declare fluency in those languages solely due to completing an Assimil program. Were you implying that Administrator who only speaks six languages disparages Assimil and advocates FSI is not intelligent enough to use Assimil? I would love to do that with Pimsleur. Just think finishing a 3 level program beginner, intermediate, and advanced every 90 days becoming "fluent" in a new language every 90 days! I could feel like a genius...at least till reality set in...being a jack of all trades and master of none. Edited by Cage on 12 July 2007 at 2:40pm 1 person has voted this message useful |
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