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 Language Learning Forum : Language Programs, Books & Tapes |  | |
| reltuk Groupie United States Joined 6819 days ago 75 posts - 110 votes  Speaks: English* Studies: Spanish, French | Message 89 of 191 12 July 2007 at 3:01pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
While you're entitled to your opinion, you should recognize that the majority of regulars on this forum are going to disagree with your suggestion: namely that Ardaschir and fanatic are unable to correctly evaluate their skill in a particular language. I would personally trust their abilities to evaluate skill in a particular language far beyond what I would trust from myself or from you. That being said, no one here is arguing, and I'm not sure I've ever even seen it argued on these forums, that exposure to Assimil, as someone's sole exposure to a language, would give someone "fluency."
Obviously, he wasn't:
Edited by reltuk on 12 July 2007 at 3:01pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Farley Triglot Senior Member United States Joined 7095 days ago 681 posts - 739 votes 1 sounds Speaks: English*, GermanB1, French Studies: Spanish | Message 90 of 191 12 July 2007 at 3:08pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
Didn’t see an angel did you? Well neither did I. I have no reason to believe those who make it look that easy are smarter than I am. The natural impulse is to think, so-and-so is full of it – it can’t be that easy -- but just maybe it is. Assimil gets touted as a magic course. What I’m suggesting is that maybe the magic has something to do with individual using the course. The rest of use mortals are going to have to work at it.
Now now. Not every talented language learner will prefer Assimil so it is not an absolute. Assimil is a base method you have to adapt. FSI is more straightforward in its presentation and requires less “salt” and is a logical alternative for anyone. Of course this also reminds me, and I forget who said it, to always think of yourself and a linguistic genius and if the evidence proves otherwise then blame the language course or dictionary or book and move on. John Edited by Farley on 12 July 2007 at 4:05pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Asiafever Diglot Newbie Germany Joined 6456 days ago 38 posts - 35 votes Speaks: French*, English Studies: German, Mandarin, Japanese | Message 91 of 191 12 July 2007 at 3:09pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
Sorry, I didn't expressed myself well enought. What I meant is that the books they use and they way they are taught a language is not ideal. I know many people who learned a language at the University for a long time but I often hear the comment "I could not speak with a native speaker or have a conversation with someone". I had English classes for years at school and if it wasn't from the internet and traveling I still would not be able to communicate with an English speaker. What I meant by drills is that they are taught vocabulary words one by one and have to memorize these words and then they have to memorize how to conjugate verbs the same way, etc. If you take for example Pimsleur. They never say anything about how to conjugate verbs, yet by doing the lessons you learn instinctively how to use the tenses the method teaches you. The words you hear are put in an actual conversation, which is much more concrete than a big list of vocabulary put out of context on a sheet of paper with the translation next to it where you have to "force" your brain to remember the words separately. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| reltuk Groupie United States Joined 6819 days ago 75 posts - 110 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Spanish, French | Message 92 of 191 12 July 2007 at 3:23pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
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While Ardaschir was probably gifted at languages, and that fact very well may have contributed to his personal success in learning them, he was definitely of the opinion that Assimil was as effective method of language self-instruction for the majority of individuals, even if it wasn't their preferred method of instruction. He even went so far as to offer a college course on how to teach yourself a language that was based around Assimil; the students of the course got to pick which language they would be learning, out of the languages that Assimil offered.
Given his comfort with assigning grades to college students based on their ability to learn a language using Assimil, it seems like he believed that Assimil was universally accessible, even if it isn't universally ideal for every student. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| fredmf Diglot Groupie United States Joined 6466 days ago 43 posts - 51 votes Speaks: English*, French Studies: German, Spanish | Message 93 of 191 12 July 2007 at 3:29pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
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[QUOTE=Cage] ...to declare fluency in those languages solely due to completing an Assimil program. QUOTE]
Um...who is committing this misdeed, and how do you know what else he or she may or may not have done, studied, practice, etc.? I am using Assimil right now, feel that it is helping me immeasurably, and swear by it. But I have no expectation of fluency at the end of the intro course. If at that point I can understand the intermediate-level articles of, say, Champs Elysees, then I'll a) be thrilled and b) declare myself an intermediate. Actually, I am using the course in part on the recommendation of linguist John McWhorter, who said that if you do everything they tell you to do, at the end you'll be able to speak "like an unusually cosmopolitan three-year-old." He also said that you would not be fluent--that fluency can only be achieved by regular use of the language for a protracted period of time. But an unusually cosmopolitan three-year-old? Given my previous knowledge of French (zero), sounded good to me. I guess people's definitions of fluency differ. Go figure. But why worry about what other people are studying and/or declaring themselves? Isn't this whole thing supposed to be about fostering communication in other languages and not about what others may or may not have "achieved" following the completion of this or that course? Fred 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Cage Diglot aka a.ardaschira, Athena, Michael Thomas Senior Member United States Joined 6627 days ago 382 posts - 393 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish Studies: French, Portuguese | Message 94 of 191 12 July 2007 at 3:33pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
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Great posts guys! I enjoyed them...much food for thought here. I was mainly speaking tongue in cheek here an am really in awe of those of you who are proficient in learning languages by any source. I have learned a lot on this forum to apply to my own endeavors.
Assimil is my first French source and I would never never heard of it had it not been for this forum. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| reltuk Groupie United States Joined 6819 days ago 75 posts - 110 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Spanish, French | Message 95 of 191 12 July 2007 at 3:35pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
Great quote! His take is in this article, which I believe has been posted on these forums before =). -- reltuk 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| lloydkirk Diglot Senior Member United StatesRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 6416 days ago 429 posts - 452 votes Speaks: English*, French Studies: Russian | Message 96 of 191 12 July 2007 at 4:18pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
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I respectfully disagree with the people saying assimil requires more intelligence. Assimil requires less effort/focus and is more effective in my humble opinion. The lessons are much shorter, more interesting and more legible. I got fed up scrolling down PDF files while listening to sub par sound.
1 person has voted this message useful |
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