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| Kounotori Triglot Senior Member Finland Joined 5138 days ago 136 posts - 264 votes  Speaks: Finnish*, English, Russian Studies: Mandarin | Message 121 of 162 11 July 2010 at 8:55pm | IP Logged | |||||
And even if it sounded natural, it wouldn't work with certain languages. Finnish, for example, doesn't have separate personal pronouns for the third person singular that indicate gender: hän can mean both "he" and "she". So the original meaning (and humor) of "She??? Alex is a woman? " would be completely lost in "Hän??? Alex on nainen?".
This is also pretty interesting. "Likewise" is usually translated as kuin myös in Finnish, but it would sound painfully dated. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| feanarosurion Senior Member Canada Joined 5075 days ago 217 posts - 316 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Finnish, Norwegian | Message 122 of 162 11 July 2010 at 9:46pm | IP Logged | |||||
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Wouldn't samoin work just as well as kuin myös? I though samoin was essentially the most common phrase for that situation, and could translate as "Likewise" or "Same here" relatively well.
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| Kounotori Triglot Senior Member Finland Joined 5138 days ago 136 posts - 264 votes Speaks: Finnish*, English, Russian Studies: Mandarin | Message 123 of 162 11 July 2010 at 10:45pm | IP Logged | |||||
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Yes, samoin would also be possible (at least as a translation of likewise), although I wouldn't use it on its own in the context of the dialogue in our example. There are actually very few situations where I'd use samoin all by itself; normally it's coupled with other words such as kiitos ("thank you") or sinulle ("to you"). "Kiitos, samoin", for example, is a set phrase.
I think we're encroaching on the territory of style with this, though, so other native speakers probably have wildly differing ideas about what might and might not be okay. I think samoin would fit a lot better in situations such as the following: - Hyvää viikonloppua! - Samoin! - Have a nice weekend! - The same! So I don't think it would work quite as well in an introductory dialogue such as the one in our English Assimil example. To me samoin would even sound a bit rude if uttered as a reply to "Hauska tutustua" ("Nice to meet you"). Again, other native speakers probably have different ideas, but this is how I feel about the word samoin. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Romanist Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 5076 days ago 261 posts - 366 votes Studies: Italian | Message 124 of 162 11 July 2010 at 11:04pm | IP Logged | |||||
Yeah, it could be an American English thing. On the other hand, there is a branch of our family in the US, with whom we are in quite frequent contact, and I don't seem to remember hearing any of them talk this way either... Liface, do you think it could be local dialect thing in the state/city where you live? 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Spanky Senior Member Canada Joined 5750 days ago 1021 posts - 1714 votes Studies: French | Message 125 of 162 12 July 2010 at 9:33pm | IP Logged | |||||
I agree with Liface, from a Canadian (central and west coast) perspective. Particularly about the Alex clarification - I would hear "Alex is a woman" about 1000 times before I would hear the alternate suggested reply, and it sounds like normal conversation to me. Similarly, "likewise" would be more likely than the suggested alternative ("And I'm very pleased to meet you too") in my local experience, though "likewise" is not used, in my experience, as much as something along the lines of a simple "hello" or a responding "nice to meet you as well". Edited by Spanky on 12 July 2010 at 9:36pm 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| feanarosurion Senior Member Canada Joined 5075 days ago 217 posts - 316 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Finnish, Norwegian | Message 126 of 162 12 July 2010 at 11:07pm | IP Logged | |||||
OK, I see what you mean here. In that case then, my next thought would be just to repeat "Hauska Tutuastua," but I'm not 100% sure about that because I'm certainly not a native speaker by any means. Still, after "samoin," repeating "hauska tutustua" makes the most sense. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Romanist Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 5076 days ago 261 posts - 366 votes Studies: Italian | Message 127 of 162 13 July 2010 at 10:56am | IP Logged | |||||
Let's be clear: "Alex is a woman?" is a question, right? (I just point that out, because in your quote you didn't put in a question mark - so it's not entirely clear whether you have understood the intended meaning.) Of course, in speech you can make a statement into a question by using a rising tone of voice. But that is not the standard way of asking a question in English. Normally we would either put the main verb first (i.e. "Are you sure..etc..?" "Have you seen..etc..?") Or we would use "do" (i.e. "Do you know if..etc..? "Do you believe..etc)..?) I repeat, it is possible to turn a statement into a question using tone of voice - it wouldn't be wrong. But I must reject the notion that this is something you would hear 1000 times more often in standard English - that is simply not true! (If you live in a place where non-standard English is spoken it may be different, of course..) NB My posts on this are merely an attempt to help foreigners who want to learn correct standard English. However it's not something that I feel strongly about, and I'm not going to enter into any further argument or discussion about it. Edited by Romanist on 13 July 2010 at 6:04pm 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| chirel Triglot Senior Member Finland Joined 5104 days ago 125 posts - 159 votes Speaks: Finnish*, English, Swedish Studies: French | Message 128 of 162 13 July 2010 at 11:13am | IP Logged | |||||
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I checked some Finnish textbooks yesterday for replies to "Hauska tavata/tutustua". In Elämän suolaa (spoken
Finnish) there is no exact reply to this phrase and that felt natural. In Supisuomea they use "Samoin" and they repeat the Phrase. I would also repeat it, but it would make a bizarre dialogue here: "Hauska tutustua." "Hauska tutustua." "Hauska tutustua." "Hauska tutustua." My vote goes to "Samoin" or "Kiitos, samoin". Or even to "Kuin myös/Niin sinuunkin/Niin minustakin." 1 person has voted this message useful |
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