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 Language Learning Forum : Language Programs, Books & Tapes |  | |
| Spanky Senior Member Canada Joined 5750 days ago 1021 posts - 1714 votes  Studies: French | Message 129 of 162 13 July 2010 at 6:44pm | IP Logged | |||||
Yes, I meant "Alex is a woman?" but overlooked typing the question mark. While there is no definitive answer to what "standard English" would suggest as the preferred response, it is not only not wrong (as you suggest) to create a question from a statement through the use of a rising tone at the end of the sentence, but it is perfectly correct and acceptable to do so, as I believe it is in French and I suspect other languages as well. I do not doubt that where you live (presumably the United Kingdom), one might tend to heare the phrase you suggest ("She? What, is Alex a woman then?"). I do not question that at all, nor do I suggest that it is not correct English. I can advise that in my 47 years of life spent living in three Canadian provinces and one American state (North Dakota), with plenty of vacation time spent in another state (Washington), I do not believe I have ever heard a sentence construction along the lines of "She? What, is Alex a woman then?" in similar circumstances in common conversation, expect on television (British shows). Feel free to reject the notion if you like, but also recognize that I was not commenting on "standard English" usage at all in my post - that is something that you have introduced - but rather what my language experience is this side of the pond. Since you have raised the concept, where IS "standard English" spoken, so that I may measure how truly deviant my language usage may have become and determine whether I live, as you suggest may be the case, in "a place where non-standard English is spoken." Edited by Spanky on 13 July 2010 at 6:49pm 3 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| lynxrunner Bilingual Triglot Senior Member United States crittercryptics.com Joined 5716 days ago 361 posts - 461 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish*, French Studies: Russian, Swedish, Haitian Creole | Message 130 of 162 13 July 2010 at 8:37pm | IP Logged | |||||
This was discussed earlier in the thread. You could say "Alex is the woman over there." "Woman? Alex is a woman?" And yes, I think "Alex is a woman?" is a perfectly natural sentence. To me there's a difference between "Is Alex a woman, then?" and "Alex is a woman?". "Is Alex a woman, then?" implies looking for an answer (and sounds even somewhat sarcastic), something like "I heard that Alex is a woman and I would like to be validated on this" whereas "Alex is a woman?" shows more surprise and disbelief, like "Whoa, Alex is a woman! This totally goes against the image I had in mind!". Therefore, I think these two conversations Dude: She's the woman over there. Person: She? Alex is a woman? Dude: She's the woman over there. Person: She? What, is Alex a woman then? mean different things (although I think both are perfectly acceptable and natural) and so they would be translated differently. I've lived in the United States (Florida) most of my life and I don't have any features that are regionally specific, so I'd say my speech is representative of a lot of people. 3 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| Romanist Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 5076 days ago 261 posts - 366 votes Studies: Italian | Message 131 of 162 14 July 2010 at 12:08pm | IP Logged | |||||
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@Spanky
@Lynxrunner I hear what you say. However in my last post I said that I have no wish to engage in further argument or discussion about this, and I'm going to stick to that. I am always willing to help foreigners who want to learn correct standard English. However I certainly don't have problems or issues with people who prefer to learn regional colloquial variants. (There may indeed be circumstances where it would be sensible and advantageous to do so.) 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Volte Tetraglot Senior Member Switzerland Joined 6233 days ago 4474 posts - 6726 votes Speaks: English*, Esperanto, German, Italian Studies: French, Finnish, Mandarin, Japanese | Message 132 of 162 14 July 2010 at 3:42pm | IP Logged | |||||
Are you familiar with the concept of pluricentric languages? English is one. 'General American' is every bit as correct as UK norms are, and it's not a "regional colloquial variant" any more than RP is - it has more speakers than the whole of the UK, and far more speakers than any given variant in the UK. 5 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| Romanist Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 5076 days ago 261 posts - 366 votes Studies: Italian | Message 133 of 162 14 July 2010 at 5:31pm | IP Logged | |||||
1. I have no interest in discussing this issue further. 2. If you are genuinely unclear about the correct way to formulate questions in English, I would politely suggest that you buy yourself a good English grammar. You can do so in either Britain or America - on this point it will make no difference. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| chirel Triglot Senior Member Finland Joined 5104 days ago 125 posts - 159 votes Speaks: Finnish*, English, Swedish Studies: French | Message 134 of 162 14 July 2010 at 6:02pm | IP Logged | |||||
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I think the idea of working together to create a language course is great, but the tone of conversation in this thread
is so hostile that I'm not going to join in the project after all. If the situation ever changes, please do PM me and I'll see if I have time to contribute to this project. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Spanky Senior Member Canada Joined 5750 days ago 1021 posts - 1714 votes Studies: French | Message 135 of 162 14 July 2010 at 6:11pm | IP Logged | |||||
I can't help but blame Alex - if only she had been less ambiguous, all would be well. I would hate to think I played a role in anyone being dissuaded from a language project; for what it is worth, I will not be continuing to participate in this particular discussion. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Romanist Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 5076 days ago 261 posts - 366 votes Studies: Italian | Message 136 of 162 14 July 2010 at 6:18pm | IP Logged | |||||
Oh please! I have moderately stated my opinion and politely said that I do not wish to be drawn into further discussion on the matter. In what way is this "hostile"..!? 1 person has voted this message useful |
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