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Why isn’t Hindi a "popular" language? | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Specific Languages |  | |
| Gemuse Senior Member Germany Joined 3891 days ago 818 posts - 1189 votes  Speaks: English Studies: German | Message 169 of 197 04 March 2014 at 4:56pm | IP Logged | |||||||||||
I dont think the changing landscape of comics has anything to do with Hindi. Indrajal comics used to be very popular, with the original English titles translated (very well) into Hindi. As was Diamond Comics (original Hindi comics). There was a very lively Hindi literature scene for children and young adults. Comics, magazines, novels. Growing up in the Hindi belt, there was not even a hint that Hindi was somehow "inferior". DC comics is probably now in Hindi because their US revenues have been drying up. 30 years ago, they could afford to ignore foreign markets. Not anymore. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||||||||
| napoleon Tetraglot Senior Member India Joined 4825 days ago 543 posts - 874 votes Speaks: Bengali*, English, Hindi, Urdu Studies: French, Arabic (Written) | Message 170 of 197 04 March 2014 at 5:28pm | IP Logged | |||||||||||
I'm curious to know your definition of proper Marathi. Is it the "shudh" version they speak on the news? ;-)
The anglicised elite are undoubtedly a self-hating lot. However, I do not see how you can say the problem is worse in the non-hindi speaking areas. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||||||||
| Luso Hexaglot Senior Member Portugal Joined 5870 days ago 819 posts - 1812 votes Speaks: Portuguese*, French, EnglishC2, GermanB1, Italian, Spanish Studies: Sanskrit, Arabic (classical) | Message 171 of 197 04 March 2014 at 6:28pm | IP Logged | |||||||||||
Excuse me for interrupting one of the most interesting and original exchanges since I've been here, but wouldn't the adoption of Sanskrit have increased (or sustained) enormously the self-esteem and national identity of Indians? As a student of Indian culture (both formally and informally) for a few decades, I'm quite aware that this wouldn't have been easy or straightforward (nothing in India ever is), but it could have been more neutral, and it wouldn't have stood in the way of English as a "technical language". On the other hand, it may be just a romantic idea... :) 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||||||||
| Gemuse Senior Member Germany Joined 3891 days ago 818 posts - 1189 votes Speaks: English Studies: German | Message 172 of 197 04 March 2014 at 6:54pm | IP Logged | |||||||||||
There are a significant number of Indians who are muslims (about 15% now). After the very bloody 1947 partition of india (death toll 200,000 to 1 million), and during which the Indian govt was trying to make India a place where all religions had equal status (unlike Pakistan which was an Islamic state), it would not have been conducive to the health of the nascent country to have been foisted an ancient Hindu language upon the muslim population. It sure would not have been neutral. The only way it would have been possible were if Urdu/Arabic had also been adopted. Pushing two languages on states (especially on southern states in which both languages were alien) would not have been practical (recall that India was dirt poor then, and that the partition was very costly both due to lives lost, and due to the migration of millions of people). Some schools still teach Sanskrit as a second language. But you know how that goes.. Edited by Gemuse on 04 March 2014 at 6:55pm 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||||||||
| Lykeio Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 4053 days ago 120 posts - 357 votes | Message 173 of 197 04 March 2014 at 10:17pm | IP Logged | |||||||||||
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The problem is that Sanskrit isn't in any way an "ancient Hindu language". It's an
ancient Indian language and the amount of secular work in it far, far far, oustrips the so called religious work - which is varied in sect and religion anyway. This is my major pet peeve with India, they've let the uneducated right wing nutjob pandits take over. Wtf would Ashoka say? why aren't there more Aryabhattas and Sayanas? I've said it before, but if you had less people bungling the Gita and more reading Narayana the country would be happier. A Sanskrit which stands on its own two feet, devoid of these disgusting saffronised connotations, would have been an admirable replacement for English in coining higher register vocabulary. It could have played the same role as Ancient Greek did for modern in coining a national language - for Indo-Aryans at least, India is a big and varied place. Note I'm not saying "adopt Sanskrit" but supplement the modern vernaculars with it. Regardless, English is still very important for its international roles and in this sense India has been lucky. I really am glad to hear that as a vernacular Hindi is still going strong, in response to the earlier poster who answered my queries. 5 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||||||||
| Luso Hexaglot Senior Member Portugal Joined 5870 days ago 819 posts - 1812 votes Speaks: Portuguese*, French, EnglishC2, GermanB1, Italian, Spanish Studies: Sanskrit, Arabic (classical) | Message 174 of 197 05 March 2014 at 4:44am | IP Logged | |||||||||||
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I was thinking of Sanskrit as a classical language of India, not as some piece of religious weaponry.
Anyway, if it was considered at the time, it must have had its virtues. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||||||||
| Gemuse Senior Member Germany Joined 3891 days ago 818 posts - 1189 votes Speaks: English Studies: German | Message 175 of 197 05 March 2014 at 4:59am | IP Logged | |||||||||||
If you would read up on what being a Hindu means, you would find that a Hindu is someone from around the Indus river. It is not necessarily a religion. Someone can be a Christian AND also a Hindu; or an atheist AND a Hindu. Sanskrit is a thus a Hindu language.
The problem is not with the right wing "nutjobs", the problem is with the leftwing charlatans who, to appease followers of Abrahamic religions, have been suppressing classical Indian (Hindu) culture and history. It is a tragedy that most Indians who classify themselves as non-Hindus (read followers of Abrahamic religions) view ancient Indian culture and language as something alien, and not of their own. Pakistan SHOULD have had Sanskrit as a studied language as it is in the heritage of its people (irrespective of their religion). But their whole identity was built upon rejection of everything traditional Indian. The situation is not as bad amongst the Abrahamics in India, but a form of the same rhetoric runs through, and unfortunately has been allowed to develop by the left wingers. The partition tragically gave credence to this logic that what was traditional Indian was not in the heritage of all Indians. A gigantic mistake. Edited by Gemuse on 05 March 2014 at 6:46am 4 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||||||||
| Lykeio Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 4053 days ago 120 posts - 357 votes | Message 176 of 197 05 March 2014 at 10:21am | IP Logged | |||||||||||
Always amusing, comments like this. I'm a trained Classicist, I can happily read Greek (whence the term came into English) as well as old Persian and Avestan (which possibly gave them). More importantly I know Sanskrit, Pali, a few prakrits as well as (modern tongues like)Hindi and Punjabi. I'm quite aware of what Hindu originally meant. I'm sure you're also aware that for over a century now the term has been strictly religious. A Sikh or a Jain will not take well to being called Hindu. Sanskrit it not a Hindu language. Sanskrit is an INDIAN language.
Right. It's not the left wing smashing mosques and killing Muslim families in riots, shamefully common occurrences in modern India. It's not the left wing foisting shite on schools about how the Vedas are 30,000 years old and the Ramyana contains nuclear warfare and the Mahabharata evidence of test tube babies. It's not the left wing banning history books because they don't like what they say, no matter how well argued. Would you let creationists run wild in your country? I certainly would take to the streets. India has a larger problem with their equivalent. Maybe if "Indian culture" wasn't white washed, painted to be what it never was, treated as some ahistorical unchanging monolithic thing and suborned by the right it would be more accessible. Two of the best Sanskritists I know are of Muslim heritage (I don't know their practicing status). Pound for pound with a better understanding of ancient India than any pandit. How do you think they would have faired in India?
Partition was a gigantic mistake and Pakistan ought never to have existed. Its certainly coming back to bite everyone in the ass now. On the other hand given the increasingly evil treatment of these people in India I can see why it was argued for. The Indians hardly got Nehru's India as promised either. But this is going well beyond language learning and the history of said languages. 1 person has voted this message useful |
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