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Tres Mentes, Trzy Światy: Team Żubr TAC12 | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Language Learning Log |  | |
| Vos Diglot Senior Member Australia Joined 5354 days ago 766 posts - 1020 votes  Speaks: English*, Spanish Studies: Dutch, Polish | Message 33 of 123 24 January 2012 at 11:44pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
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Tozick - Well Polish is never a hopeless affair, so I’ll stick with uczyć się. Thanks for showing me the other options
though. And as always, thanks for your thorough replies and explanations, very helpful and muchly appreciated. Quabazaa - Sí, me fijé en tu voseo, ¿debes haberte quedado allí para un buen rato no? Gracias por la recomendación de programa de televisión, es exactamente lo que me hace falta ya que quiero mejorar mi comprensión auditiva y veo programas muy rara vez debido a no conocer ningunos buenos. Entonces cuanto más programas de televisión que valen la pena, mejor. ¡Hasta luego! 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Vos Diglot Senior Member Australia Joined 5354 days ago 766 posts - 1020 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish Studies: Dutch, Polish | Message 34 of 123 28 January 2012 at 12:13am | IP Logged | ||||||||
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Trochę Polskiego
Obecnie oglądam tenis bo jest mistrzostwo tu odbywać się w mieście. Nie gram w tenisa ale ono lubię oglądać na telewizji. Jutro idę na rynek jak zwykle po warzywa i rzeczy i potem po południu jadę do gór z przyjacielem. Myślę, że muszę zaczynać uczyć się więcej bo już zapominam rzeczy po tylko jednym dniu (of not studying). Dlaczego jest tak skomplikowany?... Nie, kocham język mimo jego trudności ...ale on jest naprawdę wyzywający. (A kto nie lubi dobre wyzanie?). Literally - At the moment I’m watching the tennis as there’s a championship happening here in the city. I don’t play tennis but I like to watch it on tv. Tomorrow I’m going to the market as usual to get some vegetables and things and then in the afternoon I’m going to the mountains with a friend. I think I need to start studying more as I’m already forgetting things after only one day (of not studying). Why is it so complicated?... No, I love the language in spite of its difficulties ...but it truly is challenging. (And who doesn’t like a good challenge?). 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Theodisce Octoglot Senior Member Poland Joined 5674 days ago 127 posts - 167 votes Speaks: Polish*, Latin, Ancient Greek, Russian, Czech, French, English, German Studies: Italian, Spanish, Slovak, Ukrainian, Serbo-Croatian, Greek, Portuguese | Message 35 of 123 28 January 2012 at 12:47am | IP Logged | ||||||||
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Obecnie oglądam tenis bo jest mistrzostwo tu odbywać się w mieście. Nie gram w tenisa ale ono lubię oglądać na telewizji
Obecnie oglądam tenis, bo tu w mieście odbywają się mistrzostwa. Nie gram w tenisa, ale lubię go oglądać w telewizji Jutro idę na rynek jak zwykle po warzywa i rzeczy i potem po południu jadę do gór z przyjacielem. ...i inne rzeczy | ...w góry Myślę, że muszę zaczynać uczyć się więcej bo już zapominam rzeczy po tylko jednym dniu ...zacząć Dlaczego jest tak skomplikowany?... Nie, kocham język mimo jego trudności ...ale on jest naprawdę wyzywający. (A kto nie lubi dobre wyzanie?). Dlaczego on jest... | kocham ten język | naprawdę jest wyzwaniem | dobrych wyzwań Wyzywający actually means provocative (in the sense of being dressed provocatively). As to challenges, I was wondering what adjective is typically associated with wyzwanie in Polish and I found out that the word is used without any adjective as a rule. One could perhaps argue that trudne (hard) is the word we need here but I hardly ever see it in such context. You're doing it well. Don't allow tiny linguistic peculiarities like prepositions to deprive you of your confidence. Edited by Theodisce on 28 January 2012 at 12:49am 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Vos Diglot Senior Member Australia Joined 5354 days ago 766 posts - 1020 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish Studies: Dutch, Polish | Message 36 of 123 31 January 2012 at 9:23am | IP Logged | ||||||||
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Week Four - Semana Cuatro - Tydzień Cztery
La Atlántida y Los Países Bajos Tuve un sueño interesado, o más bien una ligera imagen pasajera mientras echándome hace unos minutos. La historia de Atlántida, no lo sé por qué me vino a la mente pero pensaba en los Países Bajos, y si los océanos se fijen subir debido al derretimiento de los casquetes polares, los Países Bajos acaben siendo la verdadera Atlántida dentro de algunos cientos años. Debo decir que no quiero que el agua suba ni que los Países Bajos lleguen a ser inundados y así desaparecen del mapa mundial en absoluto, sólo era un pensamiento extraño que se me ocurrió entre sueños. Pero imáginate si en mil años por alguna razón u otra, el mundo haya olvidado de ese país se llama ‘Nederland’, su nombre no sea en los libros ni oído en las calles, no enseñado en las clases de historia ni hablado en las películas.. y luego un día un marinero o un buzo coge una vislumbre de luz desde el hondo del agua, decide bajar y echar una ojeada a esa luz trémula, y descubre el ‘Oude Kerk’, las verjas de ‘Vondel Park’, y el laberinto de los canales ahora hogar a las almejas y los mejillones. A propósito de los Países Bajos, vi un documental hoy sobre el ‘Rijksmuseum’ en Amsterdam, no sabía que ha estado cerrado desde 2009. Por lo visto han estado tratando de mejorar el museo y contruir un nuevo edificio para investigación y también para albergar más cuadros, esculturas y demás, pero ha sido muy difícil recibir los derechos y la financiación para ello, y por lo cual, han tenido que aplazar la reapertura de nuevo y de nuevo, y todavía no abrirá hasta 2013. Eso es un buen rato de ser cerrado especialmente para uno de los mueseos más conocidos (y se podría decir que es uno de los más importantes) del mundo. Ojalá vuelva a abrir pronto. Study wise - Read a bunch of articles from a 2 year old copy of El País which I found under my clothes rack and 2 short stories. Wrote a heap and added a bunch words to anki. Currently sitting at 3509. Polski Mam koncert w środę, idę zobaczyć Soundgarden!!! Nie mogę czekać. Czekam już na sposobność prawie sześć lat. Wczoraj poszedłem do klasy polskiej na pierwej lekcję moją, ta była nietrudna i nauczycielka była bardzo śliczna. I spent most of last week reviewing previous chapters rather than pushing on into new territory, as I felt and still do that my Polish legs are very shaky. So I finally got around to reviewing the cases that I have been introduced to so far (Mianownik - Nominative. Biernik - Accusative. Dopełniacz - Genitive. Miejscownik - Locative) and made a nice visual table of them all and how each noun, adjective and plural forms (masculine and other) of each gender decline. As I’m introduced to the rest they’ll be added to the table, including the exceptions and oddities of that case if there are any (I’m sure there will be). Also last night I had my first Polish class! It’s a class held at nights by the Polish society here as there are quiet a few Polish people where I live and thus there is a decent sized community. What can I say about it? Well, it was kind of what you’d expect from a not very common/popular foreign language choice putting on classes for a small bunch people. Most of the people there (8 in total) were either married/seeing someone who is Polish and were learning the language so that they could communicate with the relatives still living in Poland, or were of Polish decent and wanted to restore the language in the family. Also the classes were very much ‘freely structured’, or rather didn’t really have a plan, which gave it not the feel of an organised foreign language class, but rather of a group of people coming together to marvel (some in disbelief) at the sounds and pronunciation of Polish (quite funny). However, the teacher was unbelieveably lovely, and it was so nice and you could feel the good that it was imparting, to hear someone right in front of you pronounce the words and all the sounds of Polish, with a proper Polish accent. So lovely! On a slightly strange note though, there were 3 people who had already done a semester last year (2 in the case of another) in the class, and I’m not sure whether I’m pleasantly surprised, bewildered or disappointed, a little of all 3 I guess, to say that my knowledge of the language already exceeded theirs, and that is not saying much by any means. I guess they had just been moving at a very slow and easy pace and perhaps they don’t have much time to spend working on the language except for the 2 hour class each week. I should say though that it was a beginners class, however my idea of beginner and their idea of beginner and the materials that should be taught, is (apparently) massively different. So on Wednesday I’m going to check out the ‘intermediate’ class, which is basically for those who can already say ‘what’s your name, where do you live and count to 10’, and gauge what the level’s like, as apparently there will be a few other people who weren’t in the class yesterday attending who will hopefully know a lot more than I do and so push me to learn more. Again though, the teacher was lovely and just to hear a native speak I feel was very beneficial for my pronunciation. I’m going to ask on Wednesday if grammatical things are taught (they have to be, surely! The reason why I’m uncertain is that the people who had already done a semester or two had only learnt set sentences and phrases, so I’m not sure what to think or expect), and then I’ll take it from there I guess. I can go for 3 weeks to see if I like it before I have to pay, so they give you a good amount of time to be sure if it’s for you. I hope the Wednesday class is a bit more challenging. Will report next week. Study wise - Reviewed a few things in my book, created case tables and did my anki cards. Currently at 437. ----------------------------
Firstly thanks for your corrections Theodisce, much appreciated. With the above sentence, I’m just wondering why odbywać się was conjugated in the third person plural rather than in the 3rd person singular as it’s refering to a singular event (mistrzostwo)? Oh, I just realised you changed it to the plural form, but how come? Thanks again. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| tozick Diglot Groupie Poland Joined 6150 days ago 44 posts - 69 votes Speaks: Polish*, English | Message 37 of 123 31 January 2012 at 10:04am | IP Logged | ||||||||
W środę wybieram się/idę na koncert Soundgarden!!! Nie mogę się doczekać. Czekałem na taką okazję prawie sześć lat. Wczoraj poszedłem na pierwszą lekcję (języka) polskiego. Nie była ona trudna, a nauczycielka była śliczna.
'mistrzostwo' in singular means - 'mastery' or 'championship' as in the title 'mistrzostwa' (plural) means - championship - the event And yes, 'odbywają się' because it's plural. Sorry for a somewhat half-arsed reply but I'm off to a lecture. Just ask if anything is unclear or sumet. 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Vos Diglot Senior Member Australia Joined 5354 days ago 766 posts - 1020 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish Studies: Dutch, Polish | Message 38 of 123 02 February 2012 at 1:07am | IP Logged | ||||||||
With what I wrote above, apart from the obvious oversights (ta instead of ona, pierwej instead of pierwszą - the dictionary said it didn’t decline! I knew that didn’t sound right) was it at least grammatically correct, if not sounding particularly Polish? That is, despite it not sounding like something a native Polish speaker would say in order to express what I wrote, was it at least correct from a grammatical standpoint? I just wonder as my book says one thing and corrections from real Poles say another. For example: Where I wrote ‘Czekam już na sposobność prawie sześć lat’ - I had learnt that you could form a type of past tense in certain situations using the present tense to form the equivalent of English - ‘I have been’ (present perfect), if that thing is still occuring in the present and something relating to time/length of time is given, thus: ‘I have been waiting for the oportunity for 6 years’. An example from my book is ‘czekam już godzinę’ - I’ve been waiting for an hour. Or ‘jak długo tu mieszkasz?’ - how long have you been living here? Also with ‘Wczoraj poszedłem do klasy polskiej na pierwrzą lekcję moją’, what I was trying to say was ‘yesterday I went to Polish class for my first lesson’, is that what it reads despite not sounding how a Polish speaker would express that? And should I have rather used ‘na’ instead of ‘do’ as it’s more of an event? With ‘nie doczekać się’, is the ‘until’ not translated (according to my dictionary doczekać się = to wait until, to live to see) if the thing that can’t be waited for isn’t explicitly given, yet retains that sense of can’t wait (for something)?
Hahaha ok, thanks Tozick. Your replies are always helpful whether in detail or between lectures, I really appreciate you taking the time to help. Prze okazji, co studiujesz na uniwersytecie? A dzięnkuję bardzo za czytanie. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Vos Diglot Senior Member Australia Joined 5354 days ago 766 posts - 1020 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish Studies: Dutch, Polish | Message 39 of 123 07 February 2012 at 12:25am | IP Logged | ||||||||
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Week 5 - Semana Cinco - Tydzień Pięć
Soundgarden En Vivo: Una Reseña El telonero durante la noche fue The Bronx de Los Ángeles. Nunca los he visto antes pero me han contado mucho sobre esa banda punk rock (más algo más que la ofrenda punk de constumbre) y sus conciertos en directo. Dieron un concierto increíble con tanta energía, el cantante era muy acogedor y hablador entre canciones y contó historietas sobre las letras y demás y el resto de la banda fueron muy entusiasmados y llenos de energía también. En un momento dado durante su última canción, el cantante fue a parar a la muchedumbre cantando y gritando con su voz tan fuerte y impresionante, sus gritos fueron verdaderamente una fuerza a tener en cuenta. Seguro que voy a comprar sus álbumes y si vuelvan a nuestra ciudad, claro que los voy a volver a ver. Soundgarden, ¿Qué hay que decir? Son uno de las bandas más importantes en la creación de la escena Seattle y la música grunge, Cornell tiene una de las voces más conocidas, distintas y únicas por el mundo musical. La banda tiene uno de los sonidos de guitarra más reconocibles y expansivos, su batería es uno de los más precisos y apretados (en el sentido de ‘en el ritmo’), y juntos forman una banda tan poderosa y inspiradora. Les tardó un poco para calentarse pero después de la tercera canción (Jesus Christ Pose - si la memoria no me falla) empezaban a sentir a gusto y tocar con más fluidez. La voz de Cornell todavía puede alcanzar las notas más altas y nunca falla impresionar ni conmover a quienes lo oyen. Thayil me confundió un poco por sus solos de guitarra, ya que me resultaron un poco sin dirección, pero por suerte no fue el caso para todos de ellos, sólo en algunos momentos y en cualquier caso no quitó de las canciones. Cameron y Shephard estuvieron sólidos y no hay mucho más decir sobre sus interpretaciones salvo que nunca se equivocaron ni perdieron su ritmo. Tocaron durante casi dos horas y le dieron a la audiencia un gran puñado de sus canciones mejores (sin embargo cuando acabó la tarde todavía quedaron mucho mucho más - Room a Thousand Years Wide y Mailman por ejemplo). Los momentos más destacados para mí fueron oír Rusty Cage, Outshined, 4th of July, Hands All Over, Let Me Drown, Fell on Black Days, Flower y Loud Love (vale, cada canción era casi casi un momento destacado). Pero el concierto entero era uno de los más memorables que jamás he visto simplemente a causa de mi amor de sus discos y la musicalidad que muestran en ellos, las vivencias que he tenido mientras escuchándolos a lo largo de los años y ver todo eso en directo, fue como la culminación. Study Wise - Finally finished reading my first ever Spanish book, written by a native speaker for natives. ¡Huzzah! Now time to hit the library I mentioned a few weeks back and pick up my next piece of Spanish literature. Where to go from here? I have a few in mind, I’m thinking perhaps La Sombra del Viento by Carlos Ruiz Zafón as it seems to be a favourite with everyone. Let’s see if the library has it. Also Anki currently at 3547. Polski Dziś poszedłem do banku, żeby coś wysortować i potem wróciłem do domu i miałem duży obiad. Dzisiaj wieczorem idę na kolację do nowego pobu z kilku przyjacielami. Jestem bardzo zmęczony obecnie, bo ten tydzień byłem/jestem(?) dość zajęty i nie spałem/śpię(?) dużo. So I’m starting to pick up on a few words, suffixes and things whilst listening to Polish radio which is quite exciting. Some of those which tend to pop up quite frequently are oczywiście (of course), na przykład (for example), nawet (even), właśnie (exactly - and many other things) and naprawdę (really). Also my Polish teacher sent me one of the lesson plans for the class above beginners and it seems to offer much more in the way of grammar and the practicing of structures and cases, so will be attending my first ‘slightly higher than beginner’ class (not trying to mock the classes by any means, it’s just that saying intermediate doesn’t feel at all right at this stage in time) on Wednesday. Doskonały! Study Wise - Have added some more info to my table of cases and so did a bit of reviewing. Am onto chapter 12 of Colloquial Polish (although once I’ve made it to the end I’m going to go over it all again). And Anki is currently at 470. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| tozick Diglot Groupie Poland Joined 6150 days ago 44 posts - 69 votes Speaks: Polish*, English | Message 40 of 123 07 February 2012 at 1:37am | IP Logged | ||||||||
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Right, let's start with the previous post and your question about the correctness of your post from a grammatical point of view.
'Mam koncert w środę' While it is gramatically correct to say that, for me the message here is that you are the one that's playing. So, yes, it is gramatically correct but doesn't mean exactly what you were trying to say. 'Nie mogę czekać' Again, gramatically it's just fine but it doesn't mean 'I cannot wait' in a sense of being filled with excitement. You could say that if someone was trying to make you wait in a queue for something. Say, you were at the doctors and you were told to wait for your turn but you knew that the thing was so serious that it couldn't wait. Then you'd say 'Nie mogę czekać, potrzebuję natychmiastowej pomocy' (or something along the lines) which means 'I can't wait i need immediate help'. 'Czekam już na sposobność prawie sześć lat' In this case, while 'sposobność' does mean opportunity etc., it just sounds odd to me. It simply isn't a word I would use and that's why, I suppose, it sounds slightly off. Then again, you'd probably get away with it and it's clearly understandable. When it comes to grammar, I'd either say 'Czekam na to od sześciu lat' or 'Czekałem na to sześć lat'. While the first one quite clearly can be translated 'I've been waiting for it for 6 years' and the second one would normally be translated as 'I waited for it 6 years' for me the second sentence sounds better in this case. Simply because if you use the present tense, for me, it sort of contradicts the first sentence. I mean, you're not exactly waiting for the opportunity to see them anymore because you're set to go and see them. While it's true that you haven't seen them yet but you've made all the arrangements etc.; if it makes any sense. 'Wczoraj poszedłem do klasy polskiej na pierwej lekcję moją, ta była nietrudna i nauczycielka była bardzo śliczna' Hmm.. first of all, we only use the word 'klasa'(in the context of learning) to mean either the room in which the lesson is held, or the group of people that studies together at school (we usually get split into groups of roughly 30 people regardless of abilities etc. and that group is called 'klasa' and is treated as a somewhat single entity within the school...more or less). I think you'd be better off just leaving the 'Polish class' out and just saying that you went for your first lesson as it sounds more natural to me. 'na pierwej lekcję moją' should be 'na moją pierwszą lekcję' instead of 'ta' I would use 'która' (which) and instead of 'nietrudna i nauczycielka' you should say 'nietrudna, a nauczycielka'. Oh and there's no need for 'bardzo' because it's slightly redundant. So the whole sentence would be 'Wczoraj poszedłem na moją pierwszą lekcję polskiego, która była nietrudna, a nauczycielka była śliczna.' (Yesterday I went to my first polish lesson which wasn't hard and the teacher was gorgeous). I would probably rephrase 'która była nietrudna' -> 'która nie była zbyt trudna' (which wasn't too hard). As to your questions. Yes we do use the present tense with some kind of mention of the time to express what you'd use present perfect (continous) for. As i said earlier in the post, I just think that in your piece, you're not exactly waiting anymore. Hence the correction. And the two examples are correct. You could also say 'czekam już od godziny' and 'od jak dawna tu mieszkasz?' with the second in particular, being somewhat more natural to me than 'jak długo tu mieszkasz?'. Personally I'd say 'Jak długo masz zamiar tu mieszkać?' (How long do you intend to live here for?) but in the past I'd rather say 'Od jak dawna tu mieszkasz?'. Both are correct though. 'Na' was just fine. I can't really come up with any rules but I'd say we tend to use 'na' with the more abstract nouns and when you're on the surface of something and 'do' with the physical ones when you're going inside something -> idę: na zajęcia, na ryby, na polowanie, na plażę, na plac (lesson, fishing, hunting, beach, square); but 'do domu, do szkoły, do kolegi, do kina (house, school, friend's, cinema). And last but not least, I wouldn't really translate doczekać się as wait until. I can't really come up with a direct translation, though. If I were you I'd just learn it as a some kind of set phrase 'nie móc się doczekać' as that's pretty much the only context in which you'll probably see the word. And that simply means something like ' I can't wait to / I'm looking forward to...' 3 persons have voted this message useful |
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