LingQ pros and cons (Links & Internet Resources) Language Learning Forum

LingQ pros and cons
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tmp011007
Diglot
Senior Member
Congo
Joined 6067 days ago
199 posts - 346 votes

Speaks: Spanish*, English
Studies: French, Portuguese

Message 105 of 116

20 April 2012 at 8:13pm | IP Logged

schoenewaelder wrote:

What is it you think we are censoring?

nothing. nothing at all. absolutely nothing (you know, I'm trying and exercise a little self-censorship as well)

Quote:

we have threads on him too, just not so often..

I have to disagree

Quote:

..and they usually spiral out of control into personal abuse

yep
2 persons have voted this message useful

Švejk
Super Polyglot
Newbie
Canada
lingq.comRegistered users can see my Skype Name
Joined 4604 days ago
29 posts - 77 votes

Speaks: English*, Mandarin, Japanese, French, Cantonese, German, Italian, Spanish, Russian, Swedish, Portuguese
Studies: Czech

Message 106 of 116

21 April 2012 at 1:00am | IP Logged

schoenewaelder wrote:

What is it you think we are censoring? I must admit, I try to exercise a little self-censorship whenever the subject of
Benny comes up - we have threads on him too, just not so often, and they usually spiral out of control into
personal abuse - but apart from that, as far as I'm aware, there are just the usual rules about being polite, and not
making personal attacks.

I don't know where to start.

Your main drift is to try tell me what to say and how to say it. "You should" say this or that. "You make snidey (sic)
comments". Not only am I "ridiculous" , but people on the LingQ Forum are even "yet ridiculouser(sic)" for
expressing themselves. Instead of wagging your finger, would it not be more mature to just state your views on
issues of substance, and recognize that others can have different views and are not obliged to agree with you.

You want me to get people at the LingQ forum to "hug HTLAL" in the hope that the folks at HTLAL will say nice
things about LingQ. Sort of like "I'll say nice things about you if you say nice things about me, never mind what we
really think". Give your head a shake. This is not only dishonest, but implies that I can browbeat our members into
saying what I want them to say. No thanks. We live in different worlds.

I note that this post of yours got lots of positive thumbs up, but I am going to assume that this does not represent
the attitude of the majority of readers at HTLAL.

Then there is your protect Benny fixation. ("Please just stop it really"). If you have something to say about Benny
here or at our forum, just say it. Let others do the same, no?

We get little traffic from HTLAL to LingQ and don't expect that to change. When I was last here, a few years ago, a
self-important teenage moderator shut down a thread I was active on, because he decided that the discussion had
strayed from the subject. Are we adults here or school children?

Well, at our forum we don't do that. We don't tell people what to say and how to say it. We don't have a spelling
Ukaz. I consider it disrespectful and hypocritical to have such a rule, given the fact that we all make mistakes in our
English. (Just re-read your own posts for some examples).

8 persons have voted this message useful

ChristopherB
Triglot
Senior Member
New Zealand
Joined 6314 days ago
851 posts - 1074 votes

2 sounds
Speaks: English*, German, French

Message 107 of 116

21 April 2012 at 4:56am | IP Logged

schoenewaelder wrote:

Personally I find that Svejk's robust defending of his system is actually symptomatic of the reasons for that site not being more successful. People have been making the same criticisms of Lingq for years, on that Site's own forum and elsewhere, but instead of listening to them Sveik and the other long standing members always try and counter the criticism, continually repeating what a great system it is, how much they love it, and that anybody that can't put up with a few little glitches must be an idiot.

Over the years a lot of the problems have now been resolved and the system improved, and Sveijk must and should be very proud of what he has achieved, but simply from a normal commercial viewpoint, he should spend more time listening to his (potential)customers and less time telling them how they're wrong.

But maybe that's because these long standing members actually do think it's a great system? Why shouldn't they make comments to that effect? I don't recall anybody calling anybody else an idiot, but I provided my own input on the matter a few posts back because it's how I actually feel. None of this should be interpreted as somehow trying to invalidate other users' criticisms and views. Remember: with limited resources it's difficult, nay, impossible to be all things to all people all the time. They actually don't have a multi-story office complex filled with dozens of programmers and support staff hired to be at every user's beck and call. And yet despite this, I've never had the impression that suggestions and complaints are simply given a hand-waive and binned, nor that users are told they're wrong to think this or that. It's just that improvements and changes take time. A number of such criticisms articulated in this very thread are long since out of date, for example (as I believe you acknowledge).
3 persons have voted this message useful

Serpent
Octoglot
Senior Member
Russian Federation
serpent-849.livejour
Joined 6595 days ago
9753 posts - 15779 votes

4 sounds
Speaks: Russian*, English, Finnish^C1, Latin, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese
Studies: Danish, Romanian, Polish, Belarusian, Ukrainian, Croatian, Slovenian, Catalan, Czech, Galician, Dutch, Swedish

Message 108 of 116

21 April 2012 at 1:40pm | IP Logged

Švejk wrote:

You want me to get people at the LingQ forum to "hug HTLAL" in the hope that the folks at HTLAL will say nice
things about LingQ. Sort of like "I'll say nice things about you if you say nice things about me, never mind what we
really think". Give your head a shake. This is not only dishonest, but implies that I can browbeat our members into
saying what I want them to say. No thanks. We live in different worlds.

I note that this post of yours got lots of positive thumbs up, but I am going to assume that this does not represent
the attitude of the majority of readers at HTLAL.

Then there is your protect Benny fixation. ("Please just stop it really"). If you have something to say about Benny
here or at our forum, just say it. Let others do the same, no?

Don't you understand? Both HTLAL and Benny "fans" are part of your target audience. Traffic or no traffic - it is a place where many hear of your product for the first time. and lingq is a good name, easy to remember. I think when i decided to register, i didn't follow a link but just typed it. because you weren't active here anymore when i joined, that's for sure.

Also, don't you see a difference between mistakes and deliberate lazy spelling? ну прийдите тада какнить на русский форум и скажите приятноли что вы так старались что-бы выучить русский а носителям языка лень правельно писать патомучто всеравно поймут

2 persons have voted this message useful

Michael K.
Senior Member
United States
Joined 5727 days ago
568 posts - 886 votes

Speaks: English*
Studies: Spanish, Esperanto

Message 109 of 116

21 April 2012 at 2:18pm | IP Logged

Švejk wrote:

Your main drift is to try tell me what to say and how to say it. "You should" say this or that.

That isn't censorship but peer pressure. Unless a moderator has put pressure on you for anything, I wouldn't be whining about censorship.

Švejk wrote:

]
Instead of wagging your finger, would it not be more mature to just state your views on issues of substance, and recognize that others can have different views and are not obliged to agree with you.

I think you should take your own advice, Steve. You're one of the most opinionated polyglots out there. And I think everyone is merely stating their views. You seem to be getting frustrated that people have other opinions of LingQ than you have.

Švejk wrote:

]
Well, at our forum we don't do that. We don't tell people what to say and how to say it. We don't have a spelling Ukaz. I consider it disrespectful and hypocritical to have such a rule, given the fact that we all make mistakes in our English.

Well, good for your forum. Here we find it disrespectful for native speakers to use textspeak or l33t or anything other than standard English spelling when so many of the forum members have spent years learning to use standard English.

Again, unless a moderator is leaning on you for typos, I suggest you let it go. I've made plenty of typos and grammatical errors in my 3 years on the forum, and no one has ever said anything to me about it. I've caught some of them, but I've probably missed many more.

It can be a bannable offense to make too many spelling or grammar errors, but like I said, it rarely happens, and most people are warned before they're banned.

Edited by Michael K. on 21 April 2012 at 2:21pm
6 persons have voted this message useful

tmp011007
Diglot
Senior Member
Congo
Joined 6067 days ago
199 posts - 346 votes

Speaks: Spanish*, English
Studies: French, Portuguese

Message 110 of 116

21 April 2012 at 3:29pm | IP Logged

Serpent wrote:

ну прийдите тада какнить на русский форум и скажите приятноли что вы так старались что-бы выучить русский а носителям языка лень правельно писать патомучто всеравно поймут

FORUM RULES (http://how-to-learn-any-language.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=16197&PN=1) wrote:

LANGUAGE
Please post messages in English. If you wish to write in a different language, use the Multilingual Lounge or Private Messaging.

:whistling:

Michael K. wrote:

I've made plenty of typos and grammatical errors in my 3 years on the forum, and no one has ever said anything to me about it.

lucky guy

Moderator(s) wrote:

Dear Forum User,
I am writing to you about one of your recent posts in the thread xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx where you contributed a message using lax spelling standards. Here at HTLAL we do not mean to tell people how they should write in their private correspondence, nor do we wish to judge your intellectual or linguistic abilities based on how you write on the Internet.
So please do not be offended, but our policy is to ask forum members to write in good English, using proper capitalization (or is it "capitalisation"?) on our forum. Most of the user-generated content on the Internet uses very lax spelling that often makes it difficult for other users to understand, especially when English is not their native language. So if we could please ask you to watch your spelling and punctuation when writing here that would help very much. If English is not your first language or if you have a disability (and I am not implying either one applies to you, but this has happened in the past), please let me know.
Thanks for your understanding,
the Moderators Group

btw, "If English is not your first language .., please let me know." sounds to me like filling up those details in my profile (Second language / Basic Fluency / Studying on and off) was kinda waste of time -just saying

on second thought, maybe I should change those details in my profile (from "speaks" to "studies") and stop using kinda benny's lax standards/parameters -again, just saying

Švejk, FYI

FORUM RULES (http://how-to-learn-any-language.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=16197&PN=1) wrote:

MULTIPLE ACCOUNTS
It is forbidden to register multiple accounts on this forum. If you do this, they will all be terminated. If you were banned and want to join again, send an email to one of the moderators about it, otherwise the new account will be terminated as before.

I really doubt you'd sent that email, you outlaw!

FORUM RULES (http://how-to-learn-any-language.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=16197&PN=1) wrote:

VOTING
The forum vote feature exists to help you support members who write quality posts. Please do not abuse this capability. If your voting behavior is suspicious, your voting privileges and/or your account will be terminated.

CHIT CHAT
No chit chat. Please help us keep the quality of this forum by NOT cluttering it with useless messages which belong in a chatroom. Keep the conversation on topic and avoid personal conversation with one or two other members. If you wish to 'chat' with a user or have a personal conversation you may do so using the Private Message button on this forum or by email.

shame on you guys..

should I start reporting posts/users?.. good. it seems to be I am not the only one who's about to be banned xD

FORUM RULES (http://how-to-learn-any-language.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=16197&PN=1) wrote:

BANNING
If your behavior on this boards gets you banned, there is no appeal and no justification of the decision. Make sure you follow the rules on this page and this will never happen to you.

Thanks and enjoy!!!
2 persons have voted this message useful

Serpent
Octoglot
Senior Member
Russian Federation
serpent-849.livejour
Joined 6595 days ago
9753 posts - 15779 votes

Message 111 of 116

21 April 2012 at 4:59pm | IP Logged

The Russian part of my post was very similar to this:

Serpent wrote:

as 4 da rule: its disrespectfull of the learner's who's native language isnt englis h too right like this, dont u think?

BTW I once got a PM about not using capital letters.
1 person has voted this message useful

schoenewaelder
Diglot
Senior Member
Germany
Joined 5558 days ago
759 posts - 1197 votes

Speaks: English*, French
Studies: German, Spanish, Dutch

Message 112 of 116

21 April 2012 at 5:54pm | IP Logged

Švejk wrote:

I note that this post of yours got lots of positive thumbs up, but I am going to assume that this does not represent the attitude of the majority of readers at HTLAL.

Well, I think we can safely assume it's not out of respect for my linguistic skills, my career and commercial success or my contribution to the language learning community. So I suspect it may be something to do with the lingering frustration, even bitterness, that they feel when their complaints seem to be [edit: are *perceived* as being] ignored or so lightly dismissed by you, on this forum and your own.

I don't have a Benny fixation. He can defend himself far more capably than I can, as, I might add, can you. I admire what he has achieved, and think he is a net benefit to the language learning community, irrespective of whether he speaks his languages fluently, or at level A1. In many respects I find him as irritating as your members seem to. I find that it's an issue that can not be sensibly discussed on this forum any more although it is amusing to occasionaly watch, or even join in the cat-fighting, but about once a year is often enough for me. I appreciate that others may enjoy it more frequently.

I am sorry you found my "friendly advice" unhelpful, but as I am the master of self-cenorship, and do not wish to irritate you any further, I shall retire from this debate.

PS: when I said I wanted a hug, I meant without the claws.

Edited by schoenewaelder on 21 April 2012 at 6:36pm

5 persons have voted this message useful

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